Wire prices - getting sadder by the day

Status
Not open for further replies.

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
no good will come of all this ~RJ~

Last time I saw surge of pricing like this the industry took a huge hit, and construction bottom dropped out. It took years for it to recover even after pricing came back to more normal levels, (higher than before but no where near the high point). These increases today make that one look petty in comparison, percentage wise.
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
Last time I saw surge of pricing like this the industry took a huge hit, and construction bottom dropped out. It took years for it to recover even after pricing came back to more normal levels, (higher than before but no where near the high point). These increases today make that one look petty in comparison, percentage wise.
yeah, we lived thru that Fred, and it's apparent we are going to again as well ~RJ~
 
I'll throw in something a little bit more on the macro scale philosophical side:. I think commodities have been too cheap honestly. When I look at all the waste and the unsustainable consumption, it seems like prices should be higher. Also, I have been surprised by how few people care about these high building material prices. I mean they care and do complain, but I haven't seen anybody cancel a project yet.
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
I'll throw in something a little bit more on the macro scale philosophical side:. I think commodities have been too cheap honestly. When I look at all the waste and the unsustainable consumption, it seems like prices should be higher. Also, I have been surprised by how few people care about these high building material prices. I mean they care and do complain, but I haven't seen anybody cancel a project yet.
I don't see how commodity prices can be "too low". They follow the demand-supply curve, just like everything else. At the height of COVID-19, gasoline in my area went as low as $1.79/gal, now it's at $2.93/gal, all in response to the relative demand. It cost "X" to get something out of the ground, refined, and to market, whether it's copper or corn. The higher the demand, the higher the price, regardless of cost. Works in the other direction too; if nobody wants it, it doesn't matter how low you drive your production costs. This is all without taking substitution into account (think whale oil >> kerosene).
 
I don't see how commodity prices can be "too low". They follow the demand-supply curve, just like everything else. At the height of COVID-19, gasoline in my area went as low as $1.79/gal, now it's at $2.93/gal, all in response to the relative demand. It cost "X" to get something out of the ground, refined, and to market, whether it's copper or corn. The higher the demand, the higher the price, regardless of cost. Works in the other direction too; if nobody wants it, it doesn't matter how low you drive your production costs. This is all without taking substitution into account (think whale oil >> kerosene).
I agree, prices are what they are due to supply and demand. What I meant was, IMO, I would like to see more longer term planning for humanity, with sustainability taken into account instead of the 'party now don't worry about future generations' philosophy that dominates now.
 

Bill_F

Member
Location
MA
Occupation
Former Eng Student, and also electician helper
Last time I saw surge of pricing like this the industry took a huge hit, and construction bottom dropped out. It took years for it to recover even after pricing came back to more normal levels, (higher than before but no where near the high point). These increases today make that one look petty in comparison, percentage wise.
 

Bill_F

Member
Location
MA
Occupation
Former Eng Student, and also electician helper
Over my way, Eastern MA, Lowe's, 2 hrs ago, 12/2 NM/B, 250' coil is $140.
Actually had several there.
The 14 is all gone.
Bill.....
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
I agree, prices are what they are due to supply and demand. What I meant was, IMO, I would like to see more longer term planning for humanity, with sustainability taken into account instead of the 'party now don't worry about future generations' philosophy that dominates now.
In my experience, people use the term "sustainability" to mean either beggar the First World, or lock the Third World in perpetual poverty, or both. With the possible exception of carbon-based fuels, there is no way we're running out of anything, ever. Until all the water evaporates from the ocean basins and gets dissociated by UV at the top of atmosphere where the hydrogen then wizzes off into space, I suppose. Likely longer than we'll be around as a species.
 

wwhitney

Senior Member
Location
Berkeley, CA
Occupation
Retired
In my experience, people use the term "sustainability" to mean either beggar the First World, or lock the Third World in perpetual poverty, or both.
In my book "sustainability" is about keeping track of all the unpriced or mispriced resources involved in the lifecycle of a product or endeavor, and ensuring that their net depletion rate is zero or low enough to be sustained indefinitely. Whaling as practiced during the 20th century would be a simple example of something that was not sustainable.

Cheers, Wayne
 
In my book "sustainability" is about keeping track of all the unpriced or mispriced resources involved in the lifecycle of a product or endeavor, and ensuring that their net depletion rate is zero or low enough to be sustained indefinitely. Whaling as practiced during the 20th century would be a simple example of something that was not sustainable.

Cheers, Wayne
I was also going to mention the maritime fur trade, which very nearly drove the sea otter to extinction.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
Well, let me be the first. I've canceled a major basement renovation project, as well as a lakefront cottage rewiring project. That's all the projects I've had in the pipeline that required large amounts of wire.
Did the customer cancel them or you?
If it was just you, why did you cancel it? Had you already priced it with old wire prices?
If you hadn't priced it, I would have told them about the increase and see what they say. I would have even explained if I had priced it and see if they were willing to accept the extra cost.
 

jeff48356

Senior Member
Did the customer cancel them or you?
If it was just you, why did you cancel it? Had you already priced it with old wire prices?
If you hadn't priced it, I would have told them about the increase and see what they say. I would have even explained if I had priced it and see if they were willing to accept the extra cost.
I canceled them due to high prices. I don't care whether they are willing to accept the current prices. It would make me sick to my stomach to pay those kind of prices for wire. For the foreseeable future, I will limit my business to troubleshooting/repair jobs, service upgrades, and small jobs that require only small amounts of NM cable.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
money is money
As long as the customer is aware and willing to go ahead, it doesn't bother me. If I shut down everytime a price on something increased I would have already starved to death! I didn't like gas going for $4 a gallon a few years back but I had to keep going.
 
Well, let me be the first. I've canceled a major basement renovation project, as well as a lakefront cottage rewiring project. That's all the projects I've had in the pipeline that required large amounts of wire.
But it sounds like the customer didnt cancel it, they just found someone else. IMO you should re-evalute this philosophy. It makes me sick to my stomach to see someone drive around a 70,000 pickup but lots of people do it and its none of my business.
 

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
As long as the customer is aware and willing to go ahead, it doesn't bother me. If I shut down everytime a price on something increased I would have already starved to death! I didn't like gas going for $4 a gallon a few years back but I had to keep going.
I agree, but my big issue is that the sharp increase in material prices is going to really impact my overhead, one - liability insurance is based on gross receipts that includes materials, and won't hit until the audit. So until then I'm not sure how much the percentage of OH change it will be, historically been running a fairly tight margin for OH, and an up to 300% increase on materials is pretty significant. Guess got to reevaluate.
 

Todd0x1

Senior Member
Location
CA
But it sounds like the customer didnt cancel it, they just found someone else. IMO you should re-evalute this philosophy. It makes me sick to my stomach to see someone drive around a 70,000 pickup but lots of people do it and its none of my business.

By the time you're done with extended warranty, tax, lic, etc a 'regular' diesel 4wd pickup ends up costing that. I remember when $100,000 meant you had some fancy exotic car, now its an outfitted work truck.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top