residential service

[ShockedOneinAZsun]

Re: residential service

When I was an Electrical Contractor in California, I would do upgrades from 60-100 amps to 200/225 amp residential services for $2,500-$3,500. When I was in Dallas, I would do them from $1,800-2,800. Here in Yuma, AZ, right next to the Mexican border, I am lucky to be able to hook one for $1,400,mostly $1,200.

If you are doing them for less than that, especially in major metropolitan areas, then you are giving them away. I was doing 4 a week in Dallas, and that was plenty enough for me.

 

[jeffrose]

Re: residential service

Scott,
You hit the nail on the head. We are not in this business to make friends or save people money (at least I'm not). Plumbers stick together and nobody complains about their prices it is just understood, electricians try to work on a profit margin that is next to nothing and stab each other in the back to get the job. I've been to the supply house countless times and heard contractors complaining about the $40 arc fault breakers. If the difference between you making money and not is fourty dollars than get out of this buisness. If you told a plumber that all sinks had to be made of gold and would cost $500
they would say OK all sinks cost $1000 and pass the additional costs along to the homeowner. Charge the customer for a job well done and you not only make money on that job you will gain a customer and make even more money. No one calls the fly by night "sparky" back. Just charge the client this is not charity work.

I won't get into what I charge for a changeover been there done that, check archived posts.

Jeff
Massachusetts

 

[aecjohn]

Re: residential service

Pierre is absolutely correct.

I am correcting my prices accordingly. Simple 200a upgrades are going to start at $ 1400. Why should I sell myself short?

Thanks........

 

[srvrrmguy]

Re: residential service

My thoughts on this have been developed over 18 years of being in this trade, 10 as a contractor. I would much rather do 1 change out and make 1000.00 then do 3 and make the same amount. I don't know why contractors are afraid of charging what they are worth. If you are a professional then charge accordingly.If not find something else to do. get a grip on what it costs to be in business and don't be afraid to loss some work, especially if your working 12 hrs a day 6 days a week. Just my 2 cents...Eric

 

[caosesvida]

Re: residential service

Here in southern de, the hackers move in from the citys with a crew, do sloppy work and underbid you, the local hackers hire kids from high school and do sloppy work and undercut you. We are the 6th fastest growing county in the usa. As stated over the past 25 years the plumbers and sheetrockers all stick together on thier prices. The painters make more money on these new homes than the electrcians. Thats the problem here. The prices have now slowly gone up because the building is so furious there is too much work so the contractors are raising prices. Not that long ago a 200 amp service was $600 a new 12oo square foot house was $2500 not including fixtures. NOT good. I dropped residential completely and went to commercial, that cut the limited license's out "mostly" they still let unlicensed people do electric work around here because there is no enforcement of the existing laws. Even after calling the inspection agency, fire marshall, and the state board ( of good ole boys) electrical license's no one did anything about it, and said it was not there jurisdiction. Thats why we can't get fair pricing around here.

 

[rickcham]

Re: residential service

Interesting what has come out of this post, from the cost of a service change to the cost of service.
I agree with many that say the fly by nighters are allowed to work with limited license or none at all in some areas, ( even most states let the home owner change his own service)
Why is it that other trades have managed to keep there prices in line and the electrical area is a crap shot on who cuts who's throat. Why is it with all the organizations for both the union and non-union in all areas of the country not taking more of a posistion on what comes down to the regulation of our trade? We all need to adhere to the NEC, why is it we still have areas that allow electrical work to be performed by unlicensed people?
Or in this trade is there a need for more regulation on licenses requirements.

 

[actionjoe]

Re: residential service

If all us electrical contractors would keep our numbers at a good rate to make money we would all be better off in business and not too many of us would go out of business. I charge minimum of 1300.00 for a 100 amp service and 1800.00 for a 200 amp. I use conduit and copper wire all the time.

Connecticut

 

[krmelectricbwm]

Re: residential service

Well put,

We typically do old service upgrades here in Northern NJ. We don't get involved with much new home building/construction due to the rampant throat-cutting and short cuts taken. I typically charge $1600-$1800 for a 100 Amp service and $1900-2100 for a 200 Amp service. The final job price is specific to the job and determined after a site inspection which I provide with a well written detailed proposal. I use PVC conduit, copper wire, Cutler-Hammer panels, and new plywood backboards. Before I leave the job I verify all of the circuits within the house and label the panel directory with a Brother P-touch label maker. It takes a little more time to do this but it really makes for a beautiful finished product. (It also demarcs my work from someone's future add-ons.) There is always someone willing to do the work cheaper and is very tough to compete in the residential market. I think I will be re-focusing on the commercial/industrial market that my father has kept with all these years.

 

[wireddd]

Re: residential service

How truly well said Pierre.
Part of the real problem in our area is the influx of foreigners in the Chicago and suburbs. These are the people who can't spell electrician, but are one. They work for 10-12 dollars per hour and thier boss, "the contractor" makes out like a bandit.The inspectors can't communicate with them,because they don't speak english, so many violations are let go out of frustration.The supply houses and Depot are filled with them every morning.
Truly, the American way! YES,services are still too cheap.

 

[krmelectricbwm]

Re: residential service

Hey guys,

I had to go back and read the entire thread upon seeing Pierre's name so much. All I can say is, "Pierre, have you thought about becoming a motivational speaker?"

Brian

 

[physis]

Re: residential service

I'm not a contractor but I work with a small handful in the San Francisco bay area. 5 miles one direction people don't mind spending $4000 or $5000, the other direction you couldn't land a service installation for $1000. Personally, I think it's best to not deal with the penny pinchers. In my experience these are the people who threaten your sanity with continuous demands and complaints of dissatisfaction. The more favors you do for them the less happy they are and the more they want. Their mission is to get as much as possible and pay as little as possible. This isn't healthy business for either party.

I think these oppertunities are better left for those new in the industry to learn from!

 

[goldstar]

Re: residential service

Part of the real problem in our area is the influx of foreigners in the Chicago and suburbs. These are the people who can't spell electrician, but are one. They work for 10-12 dollars per hour and their boss, "the contractor" makes out like a bandit.

We can't go around faulting contractors for finding a better way or a less expensive way to do business. If they can hire someone to do the work for the least amount of $$$ and pass inspection - good for them. Personally speaking, I have a conscience and would not lay my reputation or license on the line for the cost of cheap labor.

The inspectors can't communicate with them, because they don't speak English, so many violations are let go out of frustration.

This presents a problem because now the inspector is on the hook for letting a violation go by the wayside.

But you're right - God Bless America !!! My only gripe with your situation is that whoever is left in charge on the job has to be able to communicate with the inspector. If I were the inspector I would keep red tagging the job until the license holder appears on the job.

 

[active1]

Re: residential service

We did 2 services this week. Both took about 6 weeks to sell.

$1850 overhead 60a fuses changed to 200 amp 40 space. Thru roof. Bent and threaded 1 offset and 2 bends. 2 LBs, 20' steel ridgid, 70' copper 3x, rod, meter socket, 70' ground run in 1/2 emt, breakers, etc.. It cost me $150 just for city permit, bond, registration. The supply house got $18 a split bolt! I figure $1000 my cost on permits & materials ($1300 with my 30%). The job took 25 labor hours. We have a few hours selling, permits, and materil pick up. So with overhead we lost $2 an hour.
Next time we need to get $2800 for a harder service. I found out another guy was going to keep the 1 1/4 pipe, pull new wire, and 100 amp panel with no permit for $1450. Sound like more of a money maker.

The other one was an old underground 200 amp. A 2" pipe feed the meter was pulling out of the meter. The meter came off the house. The utility wanted a meter pedistal installed instead of the pipe and housing. Scheduled a disconect a week ahead of time. Came 1 hour early to be ready and help reduce down time. After severl calls the utility comes at 12:00. We were done at 2:00. With 2 guys we ended up with 14 hours labor and $130 material ($170 with mark up). We agreed to pay the GC a bit for the lead. Out of the $725 we made about $6.78 an hour proffit. I guess we needed to get about $1000 for it.

 

[jeff43222]

Re: residential service

Originally posted by wireddd:
Part of the real problem in our area is the influx of foreigners in the Chicago and suburbs. These are the people who can't spell electrician, but are one. They work for 10-12 dollars per hour and thier boss, "the contractor" makes out like a bandit.

Contractors can't can't get away with that in my state. State law here requires that unlicensed people working for an electrical contractor must be supervised by someone holding a journeyman or master license, and those licensed electricians can supervise a maximum of two unlicensed people at a time. So at most, 2/3 of the people on the job site can be unlicensed.

Whether this law is followed is another story. I've seen plenty of unlicensed handymen advertise electrical services (including full service upgrades), and the state doesn't really do much to go after them beyond sending them a cease-and-desist letter, which they can ignore without any repercussions. I asked the authorities about this, and I was told that the attorney general doesn't have the resources to go after them, and the licensing authority doesn't have any power over them since the handymen don't have licenses.

I'm sure they'll get involved if someone gets hurt or some illegal wiring starts a fire, but I'd prefer it if the handymen were yanked out of the electrician business before that happens.

[ August 16, 2004, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: jeff43222 ]

 

[Ed MacLaren]

Re: residential service

the real problem in our area is the influx of foreigners

I believe the Indians said the same thing when my folks arrived here from Scotland in 1770.

Ed

 

[ken44]

Re: residential service

Pierre
Thanks for that last post, I really enjoyed it and have found it to be true in my case.
Around here in Austin there are approximately 50 electrical company's in competition and that has a tendency to bring prices low, In the past I have installed a 150 amp service with a mast for $700.00. It is hard to make a living at those prices, so I raised my labor and service-call rates and material mark-up and will leave the pricing wars to others.

 

[scwirenut]

Re: residential service

WOW! I need to move. Here in South Carolina the most for a overhead is about $800. usually average about $600. I see in other post material around $500? I dont get that. A 200 4cir. meter main combo is $100, hub-5, rods and clamps-10, pipe and WH-40. mast wire-20. ground wire-5 , permit-25, ta's ect-10.=$215...................lots of cometition in this fair state........

 

[active1]

Re: residential service

I can't get the recipts for the OH I did last week now but off the top of my head:

$122 2ooa copper buss 40 space panel
$100 20' 2" ridgid
$60 Meter Socket
$15 Weather Head
$10 Roof Flashing
$44 2 2" LBs
$54 Split Bolts (I was robbed)
$44 Compression Coupling 2"
$32 Compression Connector 2"
$15 2" ridgid prebent 90
$12 2" nipples
$25 2" minis, lag bolts, & washers
$8 2" lock nuts
$10 5/8 copper Ground rod
$15 Grounding claps and acorn
$10 Grounding locknuts
$5 Meter top Filler plate
$25 70' 1/2 EMT
$10 Emt fittings & straps
$2 2x4 wood
$7 10' 3/4" EMT & fittings
$3 Cauck & roof cement
$40 Circuit breakers
$30 #4 wire 70'
$85 70' 3ott
-----------------
$783
7.5% Tax
-----------------
$841 Materials

$73 Permit
$25 Local city liciance (1/2 price because expires end of 2004)
$50 $10,000 bond
------------------
$147 Fees

$988 My cost without labor
I guess it costs a lot to work in some areas

Tom

 

[goldstar]

Re: residential service

$54 Split Bolts (I was robbed)

I stopped using these years ago. I now use butt splices ( or pickles as they call them in the supply house). The cost is about $8.00@. If you have a crimper, the insulated crimp sleeves are even less.

 

[jemsvcs]

Re: residential service

I'm in Ohio and I won't go less than $1,800 to upgrade to a 200A Service. For a straight forward upgrade, my costs are around $700 to $800.

The problem i'm running into now are all the 'Work-out-of-your-trunk' electricians who let the property owners purchase all the equipment at cost and work for $300 to $400. But with the local economy like it is, you just can't convince people you get what you pay for.

[ August 19, 2004, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: jemsvcs ]