residential service
- Thread starter UncleRico
- Start date
- Status
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: residential service
I am doing one Friday. $1700.00 for 200 amp overhead single family. 8 hours @ $75.00 (600.00)
Materials $500.00 + %35 markup ($675.00) Permit $35.00 = $1310.00. Remainder of $1700.00 ($390.00) for trimming the bush in front of the meter.
I am doing one Friday. $1700.00 for 200 amp overhead single family. 8 hours @ $75.00 (600.00)
Materials $500.00 + %35 markup ($675.00) Permit $35.00 = $1310.00. Remainder of $1700.00 ($390.00) for trimming the bush in front of the meter.
luke warmwater
Senior Member
Re: residential service
Wow,
earlier today, someone asked me this very same question.
In my area it seems that a 200amp service upgrade is in the neighborhood of $800-$2500 to start.
But what is 'average'?
There are all kinds of variables involved and it is really hard to give a flat fee price.
There could be a 200amp service rated disconnect and SER involved.
The SEU could wrap half way around the house.
The house could have 18" thick stone walls to core through.
Any of the above could be 'average' to someone.
I, for one, don't like to compare the bottom line.
I like to compare apples for apples.
Todd
Wow,
earlier today, someone asked me this very same question.
In my area it seems that a 200amp service upgrade is in the neighborhood of $800-$2500 to start.
But what is 'average'?
There are all kinds of variables involved and it is really hard to give a flat fee price.
There could be a 200amp service rated disconnect and SER involved.
The SEU could wrap half way around the house.
The house could have 18" thick stone walls to core through.
Any of the above could be 'average' to someone.
I, for one, don't like to compare the bottom line.
I like to compare apples for apples.
Todd
Re: residential service
As Todd stated in his post, every service job has special concerns, the price in my area ranges about the same $800 to $2700.
What is intresting, is that looking back in the business records, in 1978 the average price for a 200A service was $2000 in rigid pipe, with copper conductors, and a copper bus panel, I guess there were no price increases, on anything since 1978, or EC,s never heard of cost of living, or increased expenses, if you take all the increases into account since 1978 then a 200A service should be going for about $3200 to $4000, what you must consider is that all contractors do not operate their business, using accounting methods, most fly by the seat of their pants sort of dart board pricing, and feel a threat form competing, so they fear loss of work if they do any price increase, that is the way i worked until i almost lost everything, then with the help of other EC,s and my accountant i was able to get prices in line, as posted above not all jobs are rubber stamp or fixed price, each job has to be priced on the conditions, and prices can vary.
[ April 29, 2004, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: satcom ]
As Todd stated in his post, every service job has special concerns, the price in my area ranges about the same $800 to $2700.
What is intresting, is that looking back in the business records, in 1978 the average price for a 200A service was $2000 in rigid pipe, with copper conductors, and a copper bus panel, I guess there were no price increases, on anything since 1978, or EC,s never heard of cost of living, or increased expenses, if you take all the increases into account since 1978 then a 200A service should be going for about $3200 to $4000, what you must consider is that all contractors do not operate their business, using accounting methods, most fly by the seat of their pants sort of dart board pricing, and feel a threat form competing, so they fear loss of work if they do any price increase, that is the way i worked until i almost lost everything, then with the help of other EC,s and my accountant i was able to get prices in line, as posted above not all jobs are rubber stamp or fixed price, each job has to be priced on the conditions, and prices can vary.
[ April 29, 2004, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: satcom ]
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: residential service
Some of the contractor associations in my area publish their "suggested" prices for services such as service upgrades. I believe the average for a standard 200 amp service using SEU cable and pretty much a straight forward installation is about $ 1800.00. If you have to put up a mast or install it in conduit using copper instead of aluminum, all these have to be factored in. If you're installing a 100 or 150 amp service the cost of material is slightly less and you can probably cut some time off your labor so the prices are adjusted accordingly.
Now, this topic has been discussed before in this forum and I believe if you move up to the Boston area there are some electricians there getting $ 3000.00 and better for a 200 amp service. So, the area you live in will be a factor as to what you can get for your work.
[ April 30, 2004, 07:51 AM: Message edited by: goldstar ]
Some of the contractor associations in my area publish their "suggested" prices for services such as service upgrades. I believe the average for a standard 200 amp service using SEU cable and pretty much a straight forward installation is about $ 1800.00. If you have to put up a mast or install it in conduit using copper instead of aluminum, all these have to be factored in. If you're installing a 100 or 150 amp service the cost of material is slightly less and you can probably cut some time off your labor so the prices are adjusted accordingly.
Now, this topic has been discussed before in this forum and I believe if you move up to the Boston area there are some electricians there getting $ 3000.00 and better for a 200 amp service. So, the area you live in will be a factor as to what you can get for your work.
[ April 30, 2004, 07:51 AM: Message edited by: goldstar ]
Re: residential service
Goldstar,
You prety much answered it, the closer to a large city, the higher the pricing, here in NJ if you go north the price goes up, if you go south the price goes down, one of our local contractors , goes by home values when he prices, and he claims it works well for him, his price on services is all over the place, there is no one price fits all, we have been locked in to $1800 to $2400 price range for a 200A since the 70's everything else went up but not service upgrages.
[ April 30, 2004, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: satcom ]
Goldstar,
You prety much answered it, the closer to a large city, the higher the pricing, here in NJ if you go north the price goes up, if you go south the price goes down, one of our local contractors , goes by home values when he prices, and he claims it works well for him, his price on services is all over the place, there is no one price fits all, we have been locked in to $1800 to $2400 price range for a 200A since the 70's everything else went up but not service upgrages.
[ April 30, 2004, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: satcom ]
sundowner
Senior Member
- Location
- West Wisconsin
Re: residential service
In Central WI I'm getting 2K$, and that better be straight forward. (undergroud feeds up to the house, pedestal, rods, panel on inside basement wall...Less than four hours )!!
In Central WI I'm getting 2K$, and that better be straight forward. (undergroud feeds up to the house, pedestal, rods, panel on inside basement wall...Less than four hours )!!
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: residential service
Acejohn, who are you competing with down there in Central Jersey ? Trunk-slammers with no insurance ? I would suggest that you either join a contractor's association or check with a member that you might know in a one to see how much they're getting for a 200 amp (straight-forward) service in your area. There's no "boiler-plate" pricing for service upgrades as Satcom pointed out and each job has to be inspected for various conditions. In my opinion if you're only getting $ 1400.00 for a 200 amp service upgrade you're leaving a lot of $$$ on the table.
Acejohn, who are you competing with down there in Central Jersey ? Trunk-slammers with no insurance ? I would suggest that you either join a contractor's association or check with a member that you might know in a one to see how much they're getting for a 200 amp (straight-forward) service in your area. There's no "boiler-plate" pricing for service upgrades as Satcom pointed out and each job has to be inspected for various conditions. In my opinion if you're only getting $ 1400.00 for a 200 amp service upgrade you're leaving a lot of $$$ on the table.Re: residential service
posted April 28, 2004 09:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am doing one Friday. $1700.00 for 200 amp overhead single family. 8 hours @ $75.00 (600.00)
Materials $500.00 + %35 markup ($675.00) Permit $35.00 = $1310.00. Remainder of $1700.00 ($390.00) for trimming the bush in front of the meter.
Am I letting people off cheap at 8 or 9 hundred bucks? 35% markup? Holy smoke, I must be a fool. I've been letting people have material at cost, plus maybe a few bucks for pickup and delivery. And 400$ for trimming a bush?
On second thought, nevermind. Keep those prices right where you've got 'em. I'm sure I'll stay plenty busy.
posted April 28, 2004 09:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am doing one Friday. $1700.00 for 200 amp overhead single family. 8 hours @ $75.00 (600.00)
Materials $500.00 + %35 markup ($675.00) Permit $35.00 = $1310.00. Remainder of $1700.00 ($390.00) for trimming the bush in front of the meter.
Am I letting people off cheap at 8 or 9 hundred bucks? 35% markup? Holy smoke, I must be a fool. I've been letting people have material at cost, plus maybe a few bucks for pickup and delivery. And 400$ for trimming a bush?
On second thought, nevermind. Keep those prices right where you've got 'em. I'm sure I'll stay plenty busy.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: residential service
Feez the material for that service came out to almost exactly $500.00 as I estimated. There is no reason whatsoever you should give that material away at cost. Do you think that when you buy anything anywhere you are paying what the store paid for it? The bush trimming part was partly a joke although I did do some pruning. the reality is I do this for a living. It is my job and it is a damn hard one. (Some might say it is even slightly dangerous). Being a legit contractor means legit pricing. I have to go see the job, estimate the job, pickup materials for the job, DO the job, bill out for the job and have the job inspected. I have to pay the feds, the state, multiple insurance companies, Ford Motor Credit, Verizon, Verizon wireless, and most importantly ME.
Feez the material for that service came out to almost exactly $500.00 as I estimated. There is no reason whatsoever you should give that material away at cost. Do you think that when you buy anything anywhere you are paying what the store paid for it? The bush trimming part was partly a joke although I did do some pruning. the reality is I do this for a living. It is my job and it is a damn hard one. (Some might say it is even slightly dangerous). Being a legit contractor means legit pricing. I have to go see the job, estimate the job, pickup materials for the job, DO the job, bill out for the job and have the job inspected. I have to pay the feds, the state, multiple insurance companies, Ford Motor Credit, Verizon, Verizon wireless, and most importantly ME.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: residential service
Sometimes what happens in our industry is complacency. We do the work enough that it is very 'easy' to us or does not seem like a big deal.
The facts are a service installation requires more than just installing the material. The entire job has to be thought about- part of which is your experience which hopefully makes you an expert.
The dollar value is not just your time and the material. As a contractor you will not make the proper amount that should be made if you think in this fashion.
As a contractor you are the one who puts yourself on the line and that service stays as part of your responsibility as long as it exists - that has intrinsic value.
to keep this relatively short, the work we do as professionals in our industry deserves a compensation that goes beyond the T&M.
Anyone who is willing to do it for less is not only selling themselves short, but the others in this great industry as well.
An issue I see in our industry is that most contractors are not business men, but electricians who go out on their own to make a buck and never learn the finer points of running a business.
Just a thought: Has anyone here had a day at work where they made a financial 'killing' and then other days where they lost money? The good days help to round up those bad days.
Pierre
[ May 05, 2004, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]
Sometimes what happens in our industry is complacency. We do the work enough that it is very 'easy' to us or does not seem like a big deal.
The facts are a service installation requires more than just installing the material. The entire job has to be thought about- part of which is your experience which hopefully makes you an expert.
The dollar value is not just your time and the material. As a contractor you will not make the proper amount that should be made if you think in this fashion.
As a contractor you are the one who puts yourself on the line and that service stays as part of your responsibility as long as it exists - that has intrinsic value.
to keep this relatively short, the work we do as professionals in our industry deserves a compensation that goes beyond the T&M.
Anyone who is willing to do it for less is not only selling themselves short, but the others in this great industry as well.
An issue I see in our industry is that most contractors are not business men, but electricians who go out on their own to make a buck and never learn the finer points of running a business.
Just a thought: Has anyone here had a day at work where they made a financial 'killing' and then other days where they lost money? The good days help to round up those bad days.
Pierre
[ May 05, 2004, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: residential service
Pierre, I couldn't have said it better myself.
Pierre, I couldn't have said it better myself.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: residential service
Well said Pierre. Hopefully some of these guys will see the light. Next service change $2500.00
Well said Pierre. Hopefully some of these guys will see the light. Next service change $2500.00
Re: residential service
Average is about $1,400 to $1,600 in CA to upgrade 100 amps to 200 amps. (simple overhead)
However, I am currently doing a 200 amp to 400 amp for $13,000 and another job is 200 amp to 300 amp for $5,500. Both are SFD and compettively priced. Incidental <sp> work can really add up sometimes. Just goes to show that each job is different and many variables will effect your pricing.
Average is about $1,400 to $1,600 in CA to upgrade 100 amps to 200 amps. (simple overhead)
However, I am currently doing a 200 amp to 400 amp for $13,000 and another job is 200 amp to 300 amp for $5,500. Both are SFD and compettively priced. Incidental <sp> work can really add up sometimes. Just goes to show that each job is different and many variables will effect your pricing.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: residential service
$500 for material cost on a <200-amp service upgrade? That must be at "End Column" pricing.
35% markup? Then $400 for bush trimming? So it's really over 100% markup.
Depending on your business model even 400% or 1000% markup would not be out of line. Your markup will depend on your overhead and on your desired profit.
What are standard overhead costs nationwide?
What is your business model?
Those are the questions to be answered before coming up with markup rates.
Also, if you're buying at less than "end column" wholesale rates, then your markup can be higher without being out of the running. The more you pay, the less you can mark it up percentagewise.
There are service companies that charge 5-times over end column, which would mean nearly 10-times over end column if they get preferred wholesale pricing 40%-50% off end column.
I'd be interested to know what folks around the country get discounted off end column.
Also, how many of you use "price books" to show your customers your list prices? If it's in a book they're less likely to think you made up the bush trimming price.
They say end column is the "trade price" but it's really the price they give any chump off the street including DIY's. Even big orange discounts off end column.
$500 for material cost on a <200-amp service upgrade? That must be at "End Column" pricing.
35% markup? Then $400 for bush trimming? So it's really over 100% markup.
Depending on your business model even 400% or 1000% markup would not be out of line. Your markup will depend on your overhead and on your desired profit.
What are standard overhead costs nationwide?
What is your business model?
Those are the questions to be answered before coming up with markup rates.
Also, if you're buying at less than "end column" wholesale rates, then your markup can be higher without being out of the running. The more you pay, the less you can mark it up percentagewise.
There are service companies that charge 5-times over end column, which would mean nearly 10-times over end column if they get preferred wholesale pricing 40%-50% off end column.
I'd be interested to know what folks around the country get discounted off end column.
Also, how many of you use "price books" to show your customers your list prices? If it's in a book they're less likely to think you made up the bush trimming price.
They say end column is the "trade price" but it's really the price they give any chump off the street including DIY's. Even big orange discounts off end column.
- Status