Inspector says my zigzagged vanity wires have to be in a box

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Buck Parrish

Buck Parrish

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NC & IN
480sparky said:
I'd like to see a 2009 NEC.
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Yeah, me too.;) It raised my internal red flag. But the entire house electrical was done exactly by code.....
The only thing he found was these vanity sconces and kitchen pendant lights .
I knew he was wrong...
Oh also he said the garage outlets need to be 18 inches above the floor because their was a gas water heater in their. Again he was wrong . That's for a commercial garage that actually works on vehicles. I also knew he was wrong. I knew he was wrong and was additament about it.
 
Frank Licata

Frank Licata

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Massachusetts
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Sabretek2021

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Florida
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Electrical Contractor
In Polk County they not only want a box ,the wire has to be stripped and the ground must be attached on the box if it's a pancake or metal box . It is stupid in my opinion because most of the time the exact location of the wire ends up having to be moved. If it's just a wire you can just make a small notch but if there is a box now you have drywall patching . Most inspectors try to use common sense but you will always have a few idiots that do not know what they are doing . Unfortunately you might as well just do what they want because it will just get worse even if you prove them wrong .
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
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NE Nebraska
Sabretek2021 said:
In Polk County they not only want a box ,the wire has to be stripped and the ground must be attached on the box if it's a pancake or metal box . It is stupid in my opinion because most of the time the exact location of the wire ends up having to be moved. If it's just a wire you can just make a small notch but if there is a box now you have drywall patching . Most inspectors try to use common sense but you will always have a few idiots that do not know what they are doing . Unfortunately you might as well just do what they want because it will just get worse even if you prove them wrong .
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So leave the long length as many do, but put a pancake box (temporarily for inspection) on the end and off to one side of the vanity area. See if they say anything about that being an unusual location or notice that light is in different place at final inspection. :rolleyes:
 
480sparky

480sparky

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kwired said:
So leave the long length as many do, but put a pancake box (temporarily for inspection) on the end and off to one side of the vanity area. See if they say anything about that being an unusual location or notice that light is in different place at final inspection. :rolleyes:
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Sounds familiar.

480sparky said:
Slack NM cable run between studs for the future installation of a box for a light. Will be covered up by sheetrock, then an old-work box installed at trim.

What I would do is slap a box up, stuff the end in, let the inspector pass it, then pull the box off the stud and zigzag it back to where you want it.
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Buck Parrish

Buck Parrish

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NC & IN
James L said:
I don't know that zigzagged wires are really supposed to be approved, either. The book mentions wires run alongside and parallel to framing members, and bored through holes.

Really, I think it just comes down to a need for better planning. I have two remodeling contractors who used to insist I just leave a wire in the wall and yse a cut-in box later. I told them both to take a hike. Get me a center measurement and I'll make sure it's exact.

Sometimes they like to say the customer doesn't know what they want yet. My reply is that I shouldn't be wiring something if they don't even know what the heck they want. Get a plan before the work gets done. It's not that hard
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Zigzaging the wires or a little loop where you think the box will be near is how electricians have done bath vanity light rough-ins for very many years and still do today.
This is covered by NEC 110.12 as "accepted industry practices"
As I stated before , just because some one does not know how to use a box that is UL approved for this purpose. Does not mean the rest of us don't . Or as you stated , what if they won't put a box at all and just use the brackets. Well you and I both know you can do "what if's" all day long.
In fact the "what if" you have described is more likely to happen if they install a box fastened to the studs that is in the wrong place.
 
Buck Parrish

Buck Parrish

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NC & IN
BTW The sheet rock walls have been painted and ready for lights for several months now. The lady has not picked them out yet. I don't know if she has ordered them and waiting or what. But still no lights.
 
Fred B

Fred B

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Upstate, NY
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Electrician
I personally can understand the need for temporary coil of a conductor behind a wall until fixture and vanity is finally sourced and placed even though might be technically an issue. But I would not expect a final until fixture is finally placed either. Done it. Just be sure the sheetrocker doesn't get the wire between the rock and the stud. Or the guy spray foam the wall and bury the wire, try to get that one out.
Question, Preference, You want an inspector who's been there, done that, who has worked in the trade, or one that only read the book? Which is a bigger pain? Pros, cons?
 
Buck Parrish

Buck Parrish

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NC & IN
rc/retired said:
I was in the field for 22 years then became an inspector.
I would definitely approve a coiled cable at rough and check for full compliance at final.
The new code makes no sense to me.

Ron
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Liked - But it is not in the NEC . that's my point. Not nationally and not in this jurisdictions local amendments.
 
Fred B

Fred B

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Location
Upstate, NY
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Electrician
I didn't see a specific code section# the inspector said was violated?
Buck Parrish said:
Thanks for asking. He said that was alright with cat flex. His concern is the boxes.
He thinks the NEC says " No Renovation boxes allowed on new construction"
I told him to show me in the NEC or in local amendments. He got mad.
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314.23(C) specifically allows a box mounted in a finished surface by clamps, anchors, or fittings identified for the purpose. No mention of when permited to use. If there was one it would be there I would think.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Fred B said:
Question, Preference, You want an inspector who's been there, done that, who has worked in the trade, or one that only read the book? Which is a bigger pain? Pros, cons?
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I've had both that are a pain. But generally the one that has been there and done that is the one you want, they might even have a suggestion on what works good and is also code compliant in a few cases.
 
Buck Parrish

Buck Parrish

Senior Member
Location
NC & IN
Fred B said:
I didn't see a specific code section# the inspector said was violated?

314.23(C) specifically allows a box mounted in a finished surface by clamps, anchors, or fittings identified for the purpose. No mention of when permited to use. If there was one it would be there I would think.
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This is great Fred, exactly what I was looking for. This proves my point. Thanks
And thanks to all of you...
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Fred B said:
I didn't see a specific code section# the inspector said was violated?

314.23(C) specifically allows a box mounted in a finished surface by clamps, anchors, or fittings identified for the purpose. No mention of when permited to use. If there was one it would be there I would think.
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Though not normally a problem in a single family dwelling, I believe boxes in a wall that requires a fire rating must be supported by something other than the wall covering or something to that effect. Wall between garage and house maybe where you might run into this the most in a SFD, but not where I am. Many just have OSB on the garage wall - no building inspectors though. I have OSB on mine, but there is 5/8 rock behind it.
 
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