230 volt hand held power tools

GoldDigger · Aug 12, 2015

kwired said:
Other then the occasional item like the OP has, there is little demand for anything but 120 volt, as there is seldom a tool less then 1400VA that runs above 240 volts, Electronic items (data processing and accessories in that area) are different, but usually are dual voltage capable.

Probably has some wanting 400Hz supply to run them now, they should be lighter weight then their 60 Hz counterparts.

400Hz generators (but not the engines) are also lighter than their 60Hz counterparts.

mbrooke · Aug 12, 2015

GoldDigger said:
400Hz generators (but not the engines) are also lighter than their 60Hz counterparts.

In theory, a faster running engine can be smaller?

Rampage_Rick · Aug 12, 2015

400 Hz generators, motors, transformers, etc can be smaller because the magnetic field generated in a coil is proportional to both to flux and frequency (higher frequencies require less flux and less iron)

Speed of the motor isn't necessarily an issue. A 2-pole motor at 60Hz = 3600 RPM and a 12-pole motor at 400Hz = 4000 RPM

GoldDigger · Aug 12, 2015

mbrooke said:
In theory, a faster running engine can be smaller?

True, but a slower running engine lasts longer, all other things being comparable.

mbrooke · Aug 12, 2015

GoldDigger said:
True, but a slower running engine lasts longer, all other things being comparable.

Good point.

GoldDigger · Aug 12, 2015

mbrooke said:
Good point.

One reason that you see portable generators running at 3600 RPM and using one set of poles on the generator while whole house prime mover units are more often 1800 RPM and two sets of poles to get the same 60Hz output.

Besoeker · Aug 12, 2015

FWIW, I live in the UK which is part of the EU. I'm not happy that it is but that's different story for a different place.
The standard singe-phase voltage for the region is 230V 50Hz. Here, it is running at 50.039Hz at the moment.
I digress. I did have a slightly more serious point.
Most of my work has been on industrial sites. Few, if any, allow portable equipment on site that requires anything above 110Vac

Given that most portable tools are battery powered these days, it isn't much of a problem. Even instruments like oscilloscopes are usually multi-voltage.

iwire · Aug 12, 2015

fmtjfw said:
I keep a honking big German waffle iron on hand in case of a surprise inspection.

iwire · Aug 12, 2015

mbrooke said:
In theory, a faster running engine can be smaller?

High Hz = smaller, lighter motors and generators but more voltage drop issues.

Lower Hz = larger, heavier motors and generators but less voltage drop.

It is my understanding that is one of the reasons 400 Hz is used on planes and 25 Hz is used on many electric railroads.

mbrooke · Aug 12, 2015

iwire said:
High Hz = smaller, lighter motors and generators but more voltage drop issues.

Lower Hz = larger, heavier motors and generators but less voltage drop.

It is my understanding that is one of the reasons 400 Hz is used on planes and 25 Hz is used on many electric railroads.

Make sense, skin effect goes up with frequency.

mbrooke · Aug 12, 2015

Besoeker said:
FWIW, I live in the UK which is part of the EU. I'm not happy that it is but that's different story for a different place.
The standard singe-phase voltage for the region is 230V 50Hz. Here, it is running at 50.039Hz at the moment.
I digress. I did have a slightly more serious point.
Most of my work has been on industrial sites. Few, if any, allow portable equipment on site that requires anything above 110Vac

Given that most portable tools are battery powered these days, it isn't much of a problem. Even instruments like oscilloscopes are usually multi-voltage.

Isnt the actual voltage still 240-245? The 230 volt thing is just a label to harmonize the UK with 220 volt Europe.

Besoeker · Aug 12, 2015

mbrooke said:
Isnt the actual voltage still 240-245? The 230 volt thing is just a label to harmonize the UK with 220 volt Europe.

You are not wrong. It's a fudge. And totally unnecessary. In my opinion of course.

mbrooke · Aug 12, 2015

Besoeker said:
You are not wrong. It's a fudge. And totally unnecessary. In my opinion of course.

I thought, wouldn't be easy to change all that infrastructure in a few years

Besoeker · Aug 12, 2015

mbrooke said:
I thought, wouldn't be easy to change all that infrastructure in a few years

Nothing has actually been changed. Other than the tolerances.

Jraef · Aug 12, 2015

Tim Keveney said:
... as it is not permissible for companies to operate equipment in which the operator can touch a button which is directly connected to 230 Volt. ...

I'm not sure where you are getting that from, but it's not from any national codes or regulations. We can use 480V control if we want to. Most people don't want to, but there is nothing stopping us. Direct acting wall thermostats for baseboard heaters are switching at least one leg of a 230V circuit 230V as a matter of fact, and people are touching the thermostat knobs all the time.

Tony S · Aug 13, 2015

Tim Keveney said:
I work for a European machinery manufacturer. We import a hand held power tool which runs on 230 volt 1 ph current.

I have heard that in a place of business, that it is not legal to operate a hand held power tool which runs on voltage greater than 125 volt.

Is this true?

Thanks in advance for your advice on this topic.

TIM

peter d said:
Why would you be importing 230 volt tools when all the world's major tool manufacturers make 120 volt versions of their tools? It's not like they aren't aware of the North American market. It sounds like your company needs to go back to the drawing board. Unless these European tools aren't the traditional power tools I'm thinking of (Bosch, Metabo, Festool, etc)

On a UK building sites or industrial sites 110V (55-0-55V) is the maximum voltage allowed for power tools.

Why anyone would even want 230V is a mystery to me.

Tony S · Aug 13, 2015

mbrooke said:
Isnt the actual voltage still 240-245? The 230 volt thing is just a label to harmonize the UK with 220 volt Europe.

Besoeker said:
You are not wrong. It's a fudge. And totally unnecessary. In my opinion of course.

I’m just waiting for the mandarins in their ivory towers to decree 380/220V as the unified European voltage.

We’ll just ignore them as per usual if they do ;-)

mbrooke · Aug 13, 2015

Tony S said:
I’m just waiting for the mandarins in their ivory towers to decree 380/220V as the unified European voltage.

We’ll just ignore them as per usual if they do ;-)

I hope not :lol:

growler · Aug 13, 2015

Jraef said:
Direct acting wall thermostats for baseboard heaters are switching at least one leg of a 230V circuit 230V as a matter of fact, and people are touching the thermostat knobs all the time.

That's still just 120V potential to ground. That's normally what you worry about.

I hear people talking about getting shocked by 240V and I wonder if they really were touching both phases ( I doubt it).

mbrooke · Aug 13, 2015

growler said:
That's still just 120V potential to ground. That's normally what you worry about.

I hear people talking about getting shocked by 240V and I wonder if they really were touching both phases ( I doubt it).

Curious, if two fingers (one on each leg) touched two line conductors, wouldn't the current to ground be much lower then when only touching one?

I know its an odd question.

230 volt hand held power tools

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