kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Shhh, CMP's don't need any more ideas.
2020 NEC requirement for outdoor disconnect on 1 or two family dwelling units.
- Thread starter LPS
- Start date
- Status
Shhh, CMP's don't need any more ideas.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
You overestimate the average human. Those that are mechanical minded, will go check for outside breaker or similar, those that aren't call POCO or an electrician, or at least someone they know that may be able to help them, or they may even leave the place.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Maybe not a desk drawer, but I have many keys and don't know what the majority of them go to.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Fire departments will have a bolt cutter, it is not anything new to them to have to cut locks on power switches, panels, gas valves, etc. that were put in place to prevent tampering by unauthorized people.
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
they open it @ the pole either way.....~RJ~
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
you could tell them to hire a real 'lectrician , paper trained and all to do maintenance for once........:happyyes:
~RJ~
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
I watched a FF take an axe to a service drop once, back in my day....~RJ~
The power company opens it at the pole by either cutting the connection to keep others on or disconnecting the XF it they are the only one on the pot.
Fire departments do not open it at the pole. Usually by the time we are called the house is burned down or it is burning down because the guys don’t want to go in with the power on.
we have a few that are fairly electric smart. I’ve given them blanks and sometimes when I get there they have the meter pulled, and the blank is on it. I disconnect at pole , and give them another blank to replace the one they used.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Nothing new about existence of such things. Might not be common where you are at but such products have been made for years.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Maybe where you are, I have to use NEC when wiring dwellings.
hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
- Location
- Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
- Occupation
- EC
Just how much snow and freezing rain do you get in Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, California, and Colorado?
That's ridiculous. You know the answer is that it's the only way to do it.
But really, locating breakers and panelboards outdoors is not the topic here. A "firefighter disco" doesn't have to be a breaker.
-Hal
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
and there are many of those that have open or even lost covers and they still continue to work - though it doesn't help any.
I bet I can take you on a drive around the countryside here on about any day and we can find at least a couple disconnects on utility poles near the road that have the cover open or even missing altogether. I don't know what it is with most those farmers, but once they open something like that they don't close it unless it absolutely must be closed to operate. The worst is covers that are easily removable. If you can't find said cover often if you probe around at the ground nearby you may find it has been there long enough that things grew over it.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
Your the one that said panels belong inside, not me.
hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
- Location
- Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
- Occupation
- EC
When you have a choice, yes. A builder that is too stupid to allow space for the panel inside isn't a reason to put it outside.
-Hal
hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
- Location
- Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
- Occupation
- EC
So RJ, let me ask you the question that I asked above and didn't get an answer to. As a firefighter, is the disconnect something you feel is important? Because I never hear of any firefighters weighing in on this. Further, was any input from firefighters sought by the NEC or is this just another of their solutions to a problem that doesn't exist except to line the pockets of manufacturers?
-Hal
-Hal
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
30+ years ago few "electricians" even considered arc flash potential, let alone non electricians, including fire fighters. Your typical house had self contained metering and pulling the meter out of the socket did open the circuit to the house. Now there are many more higher capacity services, pulling a meter that operates via CT's is not going to kill power to the house. With all these considerations I can maybe understand some need for the requirement- but still makes no sense that it only applies to one and two family dwellings. On top of that if you have a large enough home, it may not be easy to find such disconnect should emergency crews need to use it. Even if it was obvious when new, owners tend to try to hide utility items by placing plants near them, painting them so they blend in with surroundings better, etc.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
Even if you narrow the discussion to houses it is possible to have a perfectly safe and durable outside panel installation.
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
I'm an ex hbiss, 30 yrs in, retired due to a bum back..... But you pose a fair Q. To be honest, i really don't think the average FF gives a rodents rear end if the powers on or off ,maybe the 'white helmets' that stand outside and yell at them might .....in fact many are such adrenaline junkies ( spot on Hv!) :ashamed1: that it probably wouldn't even cross their minds
In their defense, if you talk to guys like Don G (rescuecapt) , there's very little that apparently travels back to 'bite' the nozzleman who gains entry for a fog pattern first....
The real truth is, even if there are outside disco's , most dept's would probably call the poco anyways......
~RJ~
- Status