2020 NEC requirement for outdoor disconnect on 1 or two family dwelling units.

[growler]

Concerns were raised during requirement debates that safety disconnects allow anyone to terminate power to the home..

The idea that others could turn off power to a home seems real until people get used to the outside disconnect and then forget about it.

I have not seen locks on even one out of a hundred services with a meter/main and no one has ever complained that their power has been turned off by others for any reason.

 

[electrofelon]

I'm an electrical instructor at a vo-tech, and I'm about to purchase equipment for the students to practice wiring a service. Since the 2020 NEC requires an outdoor disconnect on every one and two family dwelling I'd like to go ahead and order the most popular equipment for this application. We don't do it in this in my area (North Florida) at this time, so I'm afraid my local supplier may not be the best source of information. Can someone please give me a manufacturer and model number or numbers? It needs to be relatively affordable and represent what the students will see in the field. Photos of nice looking installations would be helpful as well. Thanks

To meet this requirement, I would most likely use a meter/main combo. The ones we get here have the mini panelboard built in with 8 spaces and feed thru lugs. The feed they lugs would feed the subfeed (usually). A separate disconnect and meter is more work and more money.

Although off topic, I will say IMO this is a dumb requirement.

 

[Hv&Lv]

The idea that others could turn off power to a home seems real until people get used to the outside disconnect and then forget about it.

I have not seen locks on even one out of a hundred services with a meter/main and no one has ever complained that their power has been turned off by others for any reason.

I haven’t either, because they really shouldn’t be locked on IMO. Although there is discussion to allow that to be done.
we have hundreds of apartments and businesses with outside disconnects. In 25+ years of utility work, I have had one trouble call where some businesses were turned off by rowdy Saturday night kids.

 

[hbiss]

I haven’t either, because they really shouldn’t be locked on IMO. Although there is discussion to allow that to be done.
we have hundreds of apartments and businesses with outside disconnects. In 25+ years of utility work, I have had one trouble call where some businesses were turned off by rowdy Saturday night kids.

Obviously you aren't from NY. And if you work for the utility company why would they call you anyway? I'm sure most people are smart enough to just go outside and flip the breaker back on and not bother to say anything. So most of these cases probably go unreported. If you were to ask these people they would probably say it's a problem waiting to happen.

-Hal

 

[ActionDave]

I haven’t either, because they really shouldn’t be locked on IMO....

Why? Locks on electrical equipment are as common as pigoens on a city street.

We've got a whole desk drawer of keys to all kinds of locks on all kinds of equipment.

 

[Hv&Lv]

Locked in the ON position. For emergencies I just think they should be readily accessible without a lock so they can be shut off. As long as there is a set of bolt cutters available to anyone needing to shut the power off in a hurry, then fine.

 

[Hv&Lv]

Obviously you aren't from NY. And if you work for the utility company why would they call you anyway? I'm sure most people are smart enough to just go outside and flip the breaker back on and not bother to say anything. So most of these cases probably go unreported. If you were to ask these people they would probably say it's a problem waiting to happen.

-Hal

You are correct, I have never been to New York.
My opinion is based on my environment and experience.
people call us for everything. The employees in this building have no clue what’s going on when they shut off every disconnect for that particular building.
homeowners call us first because it’s cheaper than electricians call out.
Smart meters stopped 99% of these types of call outs. We can see now if the meter has power or not remotely.

 

[ActionDave]

I understand locked ON. How far do you want to carry this logic out? What if the outdoor switch doesn't have a lock but is behind a locked door or gate?

 

[Hv&Lv]

It can go both ways... you like them locked. Why?

 

[ActionDave]

Obviously you aren't from NY. And if you work for the utility company why would they call you anyway? I'm sure most people are smart enough to just go outside and flip the breaker back on and not bother to say anything. So most of these cases probably go unreported. If you were to ask these people they would probably say it's a problem waiting to happen.

-Hal

There is a huge amount of the population, I bet more than the 11 million in NYC, that has outdoor disconnect requirements and it's not a problem.

 

[ActionDave]

It can go both ways... you like them locked. Why?

I don't liked them locked, I don't disliked them locked either.

 

[hbiss]

There is a huge amount of the population, I bet more than the 11 million in NYC, that has outdoor disconnect requirements and it's not a problem.

Don't know about that and I only live 25 miles away. I don't work in NYC so I could be wrong but I've never seen an outdoor disconnect that wasn't required because of the distance between the service entrance and the switchboard or panel. Also, most services are underground.

-Hal

 

[hbiss]

I don't liked them locked, I don't disliked them locked either.

Isn't locking them going to defeat the purpose? What are first responders supposed to do, ask you for the key or get out the bolt cutters? Might as well just pull the meter or cut the drop.

Did anybody even get input from first responders to find out the number of times they felt they had to cut power before attacking the fire? Fires I've seen were almost out before the POCO came to cut power.

-Hal

 

[ActionDave]

Isn't locking them going to defeat the purpose? What are first responders supposed to do, ask you for the key or get out the bolt cutters? Might as well just pull the meter or cut the drop.

-Hal

Don't ask me. Ask the people who are making these rules in the face of their own stated purpose of the NEC not being a design manual.

 

[SceneryDriver]

Isn't locking them going to defeat the purpose? What are first responders supposed to do, ask you for the key or get out the bolt cutters? Might as well just pull the meter or cut the drop.

-Hal

There are frangible locks specifically designed for this type of use. Example:
https://hdsupplysolutions.com/p/best...hackle-p864911

Also, firefighters carry BIG bolt cutters and would make extremely short work of just about any lock.

A disconnect switch is going to be safer for everyone than yanking the meter or cutting the drop. And how do you cut an underground service drop?

If this requirement sticks around, I expect to see manufacturers start to come out with meter pedestals / enclosures with integrated disconnecting means. I really wouldn't mind it, if it means I don't have to mount another piece of gear on the sided of the house / explain to the homeowner why it needs to be there.


SceneryDriver

 

[PaulMmn]

That's one opinion.

Two. I can't see exposing even -ordinary- switches to the elements! At my house back in NJ I had a new main feed installed-- outside meter and disconnect, feeding the switch panel indoors.

 

[Hv&Lv]

If this requirement sticks around, I expect to see manufacturers start to come out with meter pedestals / enclosures with integrated disconnecting means. I really wouldn't mind it, if it means I don't have to mount another piece of gear on the sided of the house / explain to the homeowner why it needs to be there.


SceneryDriver

They have been making them for years. We have houses here that haven’t been upgraded in 30 years that has a meter base/disconnect combo panel.

 

[GerryB]

I've posted this before but got no response. The IRC is the default code for one and two family dwellings. If it isn't in there you don't have to do it.

 

[ActionDave]

I've posted this before but got no response. The IRC is the default code for one and two family dwellings. If it isn't in there you don't have to do it.

The people at the IRC and the NEC have no power to make anyone follow any of their codes. The IRC is only the default code if that is what your local governing authority decides.

 

[ActionDave]

Two. I can't see exposing even -ordinary- switches to the elements! At my house back in NJ I had a new main feed installed-- outside meter and disconnect, feeding the switch panel indoors.

That's two opinions.

What's the population of NJ. Is it near the total population of Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, California, and Colorado, just to name a few? Because they all have outdoor disconnects and lots of outdoor panels and if there was a problem I'm sure it would have shown itself.

And what about NJ. Are you going to tell me that switches don't stand a chance of survival out there unless they are in some sort of enclosed environment? What, the electrical equipment that is outside has an assigned nanny that puts a blanket on it in the winter and stands by with an umbrella during rainstorms? Give me a break.

What am I supposed to tell my farmer customers with 480V irrigation pivots and pump panels in their hay fields? Umm I think you better move this operation indoors, your electrical irrigation equipment really shouldn't be outside.