I'm an electrical instructor at a vo-tech, and I'm about to purchase equipment for the students to practice wiring a service. Since the 2020 NEC requires an outdoor disconnect on every one and two family dwelling I'd like to go ahead and order the most popular equipment for this application. We don't do it in this in my area (North Florida) at this time, so I'm afraid my local supplier may not be the best source of information. Can someone please give me a manufacturer and model number or numbers? It needs to be relatively affordable and represent what the students will see in the field. Photos of nice looking installations would be helpful as well. Thanks
2020 NEC requirement for outdoor disconnect on 1 or two family dwelling units.
- Thread starter LPS
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kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Can you post wording of this requirement?
My guess most preferred thing will be meter/main type of equipment, if meter is not located on the house then either simple enclosed circuit breaker or fused safety switch will be next common items.
My guess most preferred thing will be meter/main type of equipment, if meter is not located on the house then either simple enclosed circuit breaker or fused safety switch will be next common items.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
what is justification for this change? Why just one and two family dwellings? Apparently from link in previous post this doesn't need to be the service disconnecting means, possibly even a switch operating a shunt trip main breaker could work? Where outside is acceptable? Does it have to be on the dwelling a disconnect on another structure that supplies the dwelling acceptable, in particular on a pole or pedestal at/near property line?
https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/compa...rotection.html
“Safety disconnect (formerly the firefighter disconnect)
The 2020 change
Language now exists in Article 230.85 for emergency disconnects on the exterior of one- and two-family dwelling units so that first responders may quickly disconnect power to a structure. Language in Article 445.18 also addresses emergency generator shutdown. The rationale for change
Aside from fire dangers, first responders often must account for electrical hazards during emergencies. Fires are chaotic, with firefighters rushing to ventilate buildings on rooftops, breaking through windows and opening walls in seconds. With that, there’s a real danger of coming in contact with energized conductors and equipment.
Typically, first responders look to turn the power off before entering a blaze, but many homes’ panelboards are in basements. Terminating power at the transformer, which could be atop a pole, is not something any untrained person should attempt. This change mandates placing emergency disconnects near the service entrance equipment outside of a structure.
What might the future hold?
Concerns were raised during requirement debates that safety disconnects allow anyone to terminate the power to a home. The NEC’s response was to allow the installation of disconnect locks to thwart unauthorized power access. While the locks will not impede firefighters or other first responders and may provide a level of comfort to the homeowner, contractors will still have to explain the expense of safety disconnects, especially in locations where it’s not common practice to add outdoor service panelboards. When bidding on new jobs, technicians should stress the importance of safety to justify costs to consumers. “
It makes sense to a point... somewhere someone had a busted bulb in their crawl space and got into the bare filaments receiving a shock. Now a crawl space lighting is GFCI...
its been discussed here before...
https://forums.mikeholt.com/forum/a...er-disco-1-2-family-dwellings-230-85?t=193366
“Safety disconnect (formerly the firefighter disconnect)
The 2020 change
Language now exists in Article 230.85 for emergency disconnects on the exterior of one- and two-family dwelling units so that first responders may quickly disconnect power to a structure. Language in Article 445.18 also addresses emergency generator shutdown. The rationale for change
Aside from fire dangers, first responders often must account for electrical hazards during emergencies. Fires are chaotic, with firefighters rushing to ventilate buildings on rooftops, breaking through windows and opening walls in seconds. With that, there’s a real danger of coming in contact with energized conductors and equipment.
Typically, first responders look to turn the power off before entering a blaze, but many homes’ panelboards are in basements. Terminating power at the transformer, which could be atop a pole, is not something any untrained person should attempt. This change mandates placing emergency disconnects near the service entrance equipment outside of a structure.
What might the future hold?
Concerns were raised during requirement debates that safety disconnects allow anyone to terminate the power to a home. The NEC’s response was to allow the installation of disconnect locks to thwart unauthorized power access. While the locks will not impede firefighters or other first responders and may provide a level of comfort to the homeowner, contractors will still have to explain the expense of safety disconnects, especially in locations where it’s not common practice to add outdoor service panelboards. When bidding on new jobs, technicians should stress the importance of safety to justify costs to consumers. “
It makes sense to a point... somewhere someone had a busted bulb in their crawl space and got into the bare filaments receiving a shock. Now a crawl space lighting is GFCI...
its been discussed here before...
https://forums.mikeholt.com/forum/a...er-disco-1-2-family-dwellings-230-85?t=193366
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hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
- Location
- Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
- Occupation
- EC
This kind of stuff irks me no end. As soon as a new code cycle is even mentioned instructors go woah, I need teach to it. You are on the the 2014 NEC AS AMENDED. How about focusing on making your class proficient with that code instead of confusing them with something they may not see until years from now if ever? Geeze, some states are still on the 2008. I'm on the 14. I couldn't care less about the 17 and I'll probably be retired before the 20.
As to your question, pretty much the same principle applies. Don't expect suppliers and manufacturers to gear up with this stuff when demand for it might be 5 years from now, if ever.
-Hal
Didn't mean to "irk" anyone... Just thought I'd have at least one example of what the students will be seeing soon. According to Ryan Jackson this has been required in other states for quite some time, including his state of Utah (I think it was Utah). He mentioned many people will find this to be a major change, but it's perfectly normal where he's from. I'm hoping to get feedback from people in those states.
hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
- Location
- Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
- Occupation
- EC
Who's Ryan Jackson?
-Hal
-Hal
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
Another code instructor.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
It's common where I'm from. It is so rare to see a building without an outside disconnect I never knew life existed without them for years and years.
These days it's usually a main breaker at the service disconnect. My personal favorite is a main breaker panel with at least eight full size spaces in it so that it is easy to add something in the future.
Just look up any piece of outdoor equipment that is labeled SUSE, Suitable for Use as Service Equipment.
hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
- Location
- Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
- Occupation
- EC
Didn't we debate outdoor panels because due to the difficulty of bringing the home runs into it in a Code compliant manner they should be banned? And the NEC is on the fence about doing it? I'm also wanting to see them banned because of moisture and insects damaging breakers, particularly now that we have to use AFCI breakers with electronics. Panels belong inside.
-Hal
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
That's one opinion.
mbrooke
Batteries Included
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- United States
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- Technician
mbrooke
Batteries Included
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- United States
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- Technician
UL did testing on circuit breakers, and the majority that failed (like 95% of them) came from outdoor panels. Its been proven to some degree.
hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
- Location
- Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
- Occupation
- EC
Yes, matter of fact that was in a Mike Holt newsletter we all got a few days ago.
-Hal
mbrooke
Batteries Included
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- United States
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- Technician
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
There's a back story to every 'rationale' we read from the NEC
In this case, the rapid shut down (PV) manufactures saw 230.85 as their 'shoe in' , juxtaposed to 408.3(2)'s 'panelboard barriers' failure to follow Canadian standards (even though they are the same manufacturers) ,and not forgetting 1&2 fam's rarely see any real tradesmen or authority in many parts of the USofA
~RJ~
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
That and the code hales from other bodies and the manufacturers. The RCD oopps I mean GFCI requirements are just another example.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
For dwellings and other dry, non corrosive indoor environments yes put them inside whenever possible.
I have many installations where they are outside because that is the best place for them. They still have issues that don't normally come up at dry indoor locations.
When 2020 goes in effect I will likely only put meter main or simply just an enclosed main breaker on outside of the house most cases. Certainly not putting the many required AFCI's in an outdoor panel if it can be avoided. Meter main with 8 space loadcenter and feed through lugs might get used if the AC is nearby just because it is convenient, or if there needs to be a feeder to a separate structure this is also handy and have already been doing this in the past.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
NOOO! It can't be done safely! There's a 98% chance of breaker detonation. If you are going to do this you need a minimum 10' radius of orange safety fencing and appropriate signage.
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