Zinsco

[ramsy]

I am in the anything but BR camp, & not fond of GE, but anything else is fine.

That leaves Eaton CH as only AFCI breaker without GFPE, unless you count Siemens $200 twins.

 

[Fred B]

That leaves Eaton CH as only AFCI breaker without GFPE, unless you count Siemens $200 twins.

CH if you don't mind eating up gutter space with the oversized AF/GF breakers just like SD. Siemens is the way to go if you want the have AF and tandems. Standard AF breaker $70-$80, Tandem AF $108.

but I am in the anything but BR camp, & not fond of GE, but anything else is fine.

Eaton BR's reliability seems to be fairly good as of late, but agree with not liking GE.

 

[jaggedben]

Eaton BR loadcenters are Challenger designs, ...

Or they are Bryant, like the breaker type suggests. In any case, they bear no similarity to Zinsco.

 

[curt swartz]

The current BR line is the Bryant line not the Challenger line. When Westinghouse acquired Challenger they dumped the original Challenger "C" and "A" breaker designs. They replaced them with the "BR" breaker design. When Eaton took over they dumped the Challenger name completely and started marking the breakers "BR" and "C" so they could be used in both Challenger and Eaton.

 

[norcal]

The current BR line is the Bryant line not the Challenger line. When Westinghouse acquired Challenger they dumped the original Challenger "C" and "A" breaker designs. They replaced them with the "BR" breaker design. When Eaton took over they dumped the Challenger name completely and started marking the breakers "BR" and "C" so they could be used in both Challenger and Eaton.

Look at a old Challenger interior & then a BR interior & tell me that is not the Challenger design, as much as I dislike Challenger it is better then the old Bryant design.

 

[ESolar]

Except for factory-installed 4-pole 200A mains, resi-load centers won't typically fit #2 on branch breakers.

Sounds like your house needs this equipment below.

Then how do you add a subpanel?

https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/skuPage.BR270.html

Eaton BR thermal magnetic circuit breaker,Type BR 1-Inch plug-on circuit breaker,70 A,10 kAIC,Two-pole,120/240V,BR,Common breaker trip,#8-1/0 AWG Cu/Al,Q28,BR,Type BR Loadcenters

 

[ramsy]

Then how do you add a subpanel?

100A sub-panels with #2 & larger wire must be common, just don't see it much w/ existing service work, and can't imagine bending it in those tight little spaces.

 

[ESolar]

100A sub-panels with #2 & larger wire must be common, just don't see it much w/ existing service work, and can't imagine bending it in those tight little spaces.

its tight

 

[jaggedben]

Except for factory-installed 4-pole 200A mains, resi-load centers won't typically fit #2 on branch breakers.

That's just false, or nonsensical. (If you didn't mean to also refer to feeder breakers then your mention of 4-pole mains makes no sense.)

BR accepts 1/0 starting at 60A.
60A Homeline accepts #2 and 100A and 125A accept 2/0.
Siemens 100A accepts 1/0.
(Not an exhaustive list.)

 

[ESolar]

That's just false, or nonsensical. (If you didn't mean to also refer to feeder breakers then your mention of 4-pole mains makes no sense.)

BR accepts 1/0 starting at 60A.
60A Homeline accepts #2 and 100A and 125A accept 2/0.
Siemens 100A accepts 1/0.
(Not an exhaustive list.)

Right. My original comment was regarding BR and the torque from bending attached wires pulling the breaker off of the tabs and the thought that a more secure breaker mount would be better. The same would probably happen with many types.

 

[ramsy]

The same would probably happen with many types.

Since working space is tight, causing the breaker to come loose, the most helpful idea may be a breaker hold-down kit to keep that big wire from twisting the breaker loose.

Unless someone more experienced than me has a better idea, like some kind of wire-bending tools for this large wire?

 

[ESolar]

Since working space is tight, causing the breaker to come loose, the most helpful idea may be a breaker hold-down kit to keep that big wire from twisting the breaker loose.

Unless someone more experienced than me has a better idea, like some kind of wire-bending tools for this large wire?

Good suggestion. I have been looking at these.

Siemens Backfed Main Breaker Hold Down Kit ECMBR1 - The Home Depot

Reliable product from the technology leader. Technology enabling reliability. When it comes to ready availability, easy installation, and fewer callbacks, you need a manufacturer you can trust. Our products

www.homedepot.com

I assume that it works on a BR panel.

 

[Fred B]

I assume that it works on a BR panel.

No it only works on a Siemens panel. You need this for the BR:

Eaton BR Type Hold Down Screw Kit BREQS125CS - The Home Depot

Eaton Cutler-Hammer hold-down screw kits are available for both Type BR and CH products. These kits are used to secure the circuit breaker to the load center for back-feed main application. Consult your

www.homedepot.com

Unless someone more experienced than me has a better idea, like some kind of wire-bending tools for this large wire?

try this

Bend-All - Rack-A-Tiers Since 1995

Made with machined aircraft aluminum, this cable bender is extremely strong and durable. It connects to your standard 1/2″ ratchet, making cable bending a

rack-a-tiers.com

or this

The Bulldog Pro with Adaptor - Rack-A-Tiers Since 1995

WIRE BENDING MADE EASY! The Bulldog Bender is designed and manufactured by an electrician for electricians. Used for bending wires in panels, disconnects, LB's and wire-ways. The Bulldog Bender will prove to be a valuable tool to add to your arsenal. As with any specialty tool, with practice you...

rack-a-tiers.com

 

[jmellc]

Best I can say for Zinsco is I've see a few panels that weren't as bad as the others. Must have had light loads all along. The new breakers that were around were better than the originals. I held my nose & installed new circuits with them a time or 2. Customer wouldn't pay for upgrade & boss wouldn't turn a customer away.

 

[4x4dually]

What other violations do you think you see? And keep in mind that NEC doesn't explicitly mention animals occupying the panel box.

Animals as in the big white anaconda? LMAO

 

[4x4dually]

Unless someone more experienced than me has a better idea, like some kind of wire-bending tools for this large wire?

I've always used the hole in the end of my crescent wrench I keep in my pouch to make bends. It is about the right size for anything 4/0 and under and it is nice and smooth inside and won't mar the wires.

 

[norcal]

Best I can say for Zinsco is I've see a few panels that weren't as bad as the others. Must have had light loads all along. The new breakers that were around were better than the originals. I held my nose & installed new circuits with them a time or 2. Customer wouldn't pay for upgrade & boss wouldn't turn a customer away.

Up until the early 60's Zinsco used a plated copper bus, the 3Ø plug in breaker panels were copper also but they were strange in the way the bus was configured.

 

[jmellc]

Up until the early 60's Zinsco used a plated copper bus, the 3Ø plug in breaker panels were copper also but they were strange in the way the bus was configured.

Yes, a slip-on stab & the prongs often weakened. Might have been OK if they had kept tension. But they weren't made to be good, they were made to be cheap. Also, most of the ones I ever saw had broken covers too. Slots would corrode & no longer hold. Don't think I ever saw one with the copper plated bus. Think all I ever saw were basic aluminum.

 

[jmellc]

Up until the early 60's Zinsco used a plated copper bus, the 3Ø plug in breaker panels were copper also but they were strange in the way the bus was configured.

I forgot to mention I never saw or heard of a Zinsco 3 phase panel or breaker. Got any pics?

 

[kwired]

The side clip-on breakers didn't use spring steal, and are among the worst offenders of burnt-bus bars.

If idiot proof is most apparent with age, 50yr old Pushmatic bolt-on's avoided bus-bar damage better than any brand.

They weren't any better or worse than other bolt on breakers from that aspect.