Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

[aelectricalman]

I want to hear what everyone has to say about wiring your circuit feeders to the ceiling boxes as opposed to the switch boxes. Yes its cheaper, saving around 8-10ft per run, as opposed to switch to switch, but do you see any code infractions. One code issue could be the white feeder down to the switch, but that could be marked. I know alot of people don't wire like that anyone, because you may have to take a ceiling fan off just to fix a problem. If it were my home, I would wire from switch to switch, but I am looking at an economical stand point. Would it save me enough money to consider it. I would like some experienced feedback please.

 

[peter d]

Re: Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

Feed at the switch and be done with it.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

You already know the main downfall.Other than that think about box fill.Makes using pancake boxes impossible.If it only is to save wire then your bidding to cheap.Personally i am aginst any back switching.I believe in the kiss system.

 

[aelectricalman]

Re: Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

Jim im sorry. Im not hip with he lingo. What is the kiss system? Backswitching? Thanks

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

kiss = keep it simple stupid or keep it super simple.back switching is when you only take 2 wires to a switch,1 black which is the switch leg and the white reidentified as a hot.

 

[aelectricalman]

Re: Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

Thanks a bunch.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

I vote against it. My reasoning is from experience. I do tons of remodel work and light fixtures are always moving or coming out. It is far easier to relocate or eliminate a ceiling box with only a switch leg rather than multiple cables.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

Besides, it takes longer to mark a white wire black twice and strip a farmer switch than it does to stick with factory colors and strip out a regular switch. I'll give up 10' of wire to save stripping a bunch of lights that take twice as long as regular lights. My arms get tired picturing it.

 

[goldstar]

Re: Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

This wiring method was a standard practice that dates back to the K&T days and carried on to the days of AC cable in residences. It was a lot easier and practical to run K&T down the center of several rooms, junctioning at the light fixture and dropping switch legs down the wall than it was to run the K&T into a switchbox first and then back up to the light. It carried on to AC cable because it was more economical both from the standpoint of wiring and stripping off the metal jacket and fitting it into a switchbox.

Nowadays it's impractical (even though I still come across it) to wire the feed to the light first. As Scott mentioned, (with respect to remodeling) light fixtures are always being moved or replaced. If you were the electrician who originally ran the feed to the light first you've now left the next unsuspecting individual with a live wiring situation that has to be de-energized or relocated. If the wiring were run to the switchbox first, the circuit to the light can be de-energized locally. In the other case you'll have to find the breaker and shut it off. Another reason I would wire to a switchbox first is for troubleshooting. It's much easier to remove a switch plate and split a circuit at the switchbox than it is to bring in your ladder and remove a light fixture.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

Yep. About the only time I stray is that I farmer switch the disposal in every house I do, so if at some point they need a full-time outlet under the sink for a special appliance, I (or the person behind me) won't have to fish power down for it. Re-tie a box, break the tab on the receptacle, done.

 

[midget]

Re: Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

What's a farmer switch?

 

[charlie]

Re: Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

Midget, I believe it is a local slang term for power being taken to the point of use and then the switch legs taken to the switch. If you do that with a disposal, full power will be taken to the receptacle outlet for the disposal and then a piece of NM will be run to a switch. If another receptacle is needed, you can break the power tab and rewire one of the receptacles on the duplex to be switched and one will have power all the time.

George, is that what you meant?

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

Yep, Charlie, for possibly the first time we understood each other on the first try!

I think that the term "farmer switch" might have come into use because it's really handy in barns. Say you have a panel on the back end of the barn, and a switch on the front side of the barn for lights at the back of the barn. By running the power from the panel to the light on the back of the barn, then an individual 12-2 to the switch, you save pulling a lot of wire.

Essentially, this whole thread is discussing the use of what I call "farmer" switches.

 

[charlie]

Re: Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

Yep, Charlie, for possibly the first time we understood each other on the first try!

George, maybe there is hope for us yet!

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

Just kidding.

 

[midget]

Re: Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

LOL...that makes perfect since now that you guys explained it. I've never heard it called that before. Interesting.

 

[hurk27]

Re: Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

The down side of what I call spidering a room

(which is running the home run to each light and then running one NM down to each receptacle or switch)

Is mainly box fill at the light. the second most problem I see with it is what happens when a home owner tries to get more light out of a fixture by installing higher wattage lamps in the fixture. all the heat goes right up into the wires.

 

[midget]

Re: Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

It's not a dead end if you pull 3 conductor from the light...of course, then it's probably not a farmer's switch either.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

I call that a farmer switch "with benefits."

 

[charlie]

Re: Wiring Residential Feeds into ceiling boxes not switches

Slang is interesting to me because I always discouraged it in my classes. I wanted the apprentice to learn the proper terminology first and then he could use the slang.

After the slang has been used enough, it becomes correct when everyone knows what it means. For instance, how many do not know what BX or Romex cables are? These are both slang for old style AC and type NM cable respectively.

It is always bad when you move from one area of the country to another and don't know the local slang. Hand me a "peach press" may get you a strange look in some areas of the country when all you want is a compression tool with a 5/8" nose die.