Weatherhead underground mount array

[electro7]

Hi,

We installed a decent size (39kw) residential array using micro-inverters. We used weatherheads going into the back of the AC combiner panel. I thought it was a clean installation but the inspector said the weatherheads aren't UL listed for the application. I was wondering if someone could help me with some UL document that would show it is okay- I am assuming it is okay. The PV wire conductors are probably 6.5ft above grade under the array. See the attached picture.

He also called me on not having a neutral in the panel. I know this is okay to not have a neutral in a panel but if I remember correctly the panel needs to be labeled "240V panel No Nuetral" or something along those lines. Any help with code references for this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks ahead of time.

 

[jaggedben]

I think the inspector is incredibly full of you-know-what. Wow.

That's exactly what a weatherhead is listed for. Ask him to explain what's different about any other use.

Ask him for a code section that requires a neutral conductor to be brought anywhere beyond the service equipment for circuits where it's not used. Signage would be a best practice but is not code required, just like it would not be required for a distribution panel for ungrounded delta.

Good luck.

 

[jaggedben]

My only question is why were you using PV wire for a micro-inverter system. That might be a listing issue.

 

[electrofelon]

Tell the inspector he needs to re-evaluate his career choice, it's just not working out.

 

[electro7]

I did use PV wire under the array for the 240V microinverter circuits. My first time doing that and didn't see an issue. What would be the concern with it? It's 2kv PV wire insulation. We ran those to bell boxes with cord grips where it terminated to the q cable.

I thought it would be safer than the q cable insulation even.

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[electro7]

I've ran into various issues with this inspector and it usually result in- if I get an EE stamp they accept it. Cost me an extra $500 or so.

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[jaggedben]

I did use PV wire under the array for the 240V microinverter circuits. My first time doing that and didn't see an issue. What would be the concern with it? It's 2kv PV wire insulation. ...

No important pratical concern in my opinion if the circuits are adequately bundled together and installed neatly. However I don't think code allows it. It's not a recognized NEC wiring method, and 690.31(C) only allows PV wire for PV source and output circuits, not inverter output circuits. (PV source and output circuits are defined as DC.) Since it's not a proper cable you risk running afoul of 300.3.

 

[electro7]

Talked to the inspector:

He said the sub-panel needs a neutral because it's a sub-panel. I asked him to provide a code section and he is going to do that.

He said the weather head is listed for feeder wires and not solar wires. I need to provide the UL listing to show him solar wires are okay to use with the weather head.

Does anybody have a UL listing reference I can search??

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[gadfly56]

Talked to the inspector:

He said the sub-panel needs a neutral because it's a sub-panel. I asked him to provide a code section and he is going to do that.

He said the weather head is listed for feeder wires and not solar wires. I need to provide the UL listing to show him solar wires are okay to use with the weather head.

Does anybody have a UL listing reference I can search??

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Your best be on the weather head listing is to contact the manufacturer. Hunting through the UL listings could take forever, and do you even know what you're looking for?

 

[electro7]

Thanks. I just contacted the manufacturer and waiting for a reply back with some sort of documentation.



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[electro7]

I am unable (which I am sure you all are aware) to find anything in the code that requires a neutral. I am wondering though if this code section in the feeder article is explicitly saying it is allowed to not run a neutral?

215.7 Ungrounded conductors tapped from grounded systems
Two-wire DC circuits and ac circuits of two or more ungrounded conductors shall be permitted to be tapped from the ungrounded conductors of circuits having a grounded neutral conductor. Switching devices in each tapped circuit shall have a pole in each ungrounded conductor.

 

[electrofelon]

I am unable (which I am sure you all are aware) to find anything in the code that requires a neutral. I am wondering though if this code section in the feeder article is explicitly saying it is allowed to not run a neutral?

215.7 Ungrounded conductors tapped from grounded systems
Two-wire DC circuits and ac circuits of two or more ungrounded conductors shall be permitted to be tapped from the ungrounded conductors of circuits having a grounded neutral conductor. Switching devices in each tapped circuit shall have a pole in each ungrounded conductor.

No, that's not the way it works. You don't need to show him where it says you don't need to run a neutral, he needs to show you the code section that says you must run a neutral.

 

[electro7]

Here is what the inspector provided for a code section- see attached.

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[gadfly56]

Here is what the inspector provided for a code section- see attached. View attachment 2562577

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This talks about grounding, not neutrals. What am I missing here?

 

[electro7]

The inspector isn't understanding code language. I am a little confused about the section he is referencing- (grounding).

I guess I'm going to have to explain the difference between a service and sub-panel and grounding vs grounded or neutral conductors.

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[electrofelon]

This talks about grounding, not neutrals. What am I missing here?

Yeah , I dont even know where to begin here, completely lost.....

 

[ggunn]

The inspector isn't understanding code language. I am a little confused about the section he is referencing- (grounding).

I guess I'm going to have to explain the difference between a service and sub-panel and grounding vs grounded or neutral conductors.

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Yeah; grounded /= grounding. Good luck.

 

[jaggedben]

Suggest to the inspector that he consult his colleagues and/or superiors, and that if he doesn't you are going to. He needs to be set straight or fired.

 

[jaggedben]

I am unable (which I am sure you all are aware) to find anything in the code that requires a neutral. I am wondering though if this code section in the feeder article is explicitly saying it is allowed to not run a neutral?

215.7 Ungrounded conductors tapped from grounded systems
Two-wire DC circuits and ac circuits of two or more ungrounded conductors shall be permitted to be tapped from the ungrounded conductors of circuits having a grounded neutral conductor. Switching devices in each tapped circuit shall have a pole in each ungrounded conductor.

While electrofelon is correct about how the code works, you are also correct that 215.7 explicitly permits you to run a feeder without a neutral.

 

[solarken]

Here is what the inspector provided for a code section- see attached. View attachment 2562577

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This is from the enphase IQ7 installation manual. Maybe it can help convince the inspector.

Grounding Considerations The Enphase Microinverter models listed in this guide do not require grounding electrode conductors (GEC), equipment grounding conductors (EGC), or grounded conductor (neutral). Your Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) may require you to bond the mounting bracket to the racking. If so, use UL2703 hardware or star washers. The microinverter itself has a Class II double-insulated rating, which includes ground fault protection (GFP). To support GFP, use only PV modules equipped with DC cables labeled PV Wire or PV Cable.

It is designed as a single phase ungrounded system, without a neutral. All the outputs of the microinverters when brought to and combined in the breaker panel do not have a neutral, and so the panel should not have a neutral. It is not a subpanel that is feeding neutral loads, it is part of the ungrounded microinverter system.

I believe however that the IQ Envoy does require a neutral so you will need at some point between the inverters and the interconnection point to bring the neutral to the Envoy.