"Terra-Dome" house

[electricmanscott]

I received a set of plans and a request for a bid on a house to be built. It is an underground house built by the "Terra-Dome Corporation". Has anyone here had any experience with one of these? The structure is mostly concrete with a few stick built partitions. The ceiling is a concrete dome that rises to about 13'. One of the things I find questionable in the specs is the builder will be installing all conduit in the concrete walls. Based on the electrical plan and the amount of wiring speced, (14 recepts in a two car garage ) I see the potential for some serious headaches with a job like this. I might be wrong though and that is why I am asking for input.

 

[iwire]

Re: "Terra-Dome" house

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
One of the things I find questionable in the specs is the builder will be installing all conduit in the concrete walls.

No experience with Terra Dome but IMO the builder can not install the conduits here in MA without an electrical license, permit and inspections.

I would get this nailed down before I started the job.

Here is part of the MGL I think is relevant.

GENERAL LAWS OF MASSACHUSETTS
PART I.
ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT

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TITLE XX.
PUBLIC SAFETY AND GOOD ORDER

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CHAPTER 141. SUPERVISION OF ELECTRICIANS

Chapter 141: Section 1A Licensure requirement; exceptions

Section 1A. No person, firm or corporation shall enter into, engage in, or work at the business or occupation of installing wires, conduits, apparatus, devices, fixtures, or other appliances for carrying or using electricity for light, heat, power, fire warning or security system purposes, unless such person, firm or corporation shall be licensed by the state examiners of electricians in accordance with this chapter

 

[George Stolz]

Re: "Terra-Dome" house

If you were setting a house in stone, wouldn't you put 14 outlets in the garage for future use?

The plans spec'd the builder putting the conduit in? That's kinda weird, isn't it?

It isn't a pre-fab, right? Pour on site?

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: "Terra-Dome" house

Bob that is what I was getting at. I was thinknig maybe they know somethig I don't that allows them to do this. :roll: I suspect that when I call her about this stuff I will be promptly dismissed as a bidder which is fine with me. It'll be "The next guys" problem.

 

[iwire]

Re: "Terra-Dome" house

Originally posted by georgestolz:
It isn't a pre-fab, right? Pour on site?

It's pour on site.

Tera-Dome

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: "Terra-Dome" house

George, yes it will be poured on site. I can see it now, 1/2" emt run through the house from one box to the next to the next to the next.........

 

[iwire]

Re: "Terra-Dome" house

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
Bob that is what I was getting at. I was thinknig maybe they know somethig I don't that allows them to do this.

Scott I think you know something the builder (who is the seller) does not want to disclose to the buyer yet as that will be a cost increase.

That is just a guess of course.

I wonder how the plumbing will be handled?

Got to have license for that to.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: "Terra-Dome" house

Could be an interesting job but sounds like a pain in the rear. I am going to call the owner tomorrow. I just received the plans yesterday so I wonder if she'll be getting a few calls from whomever she sent the plans out to.

 

[iwire]

Re: "Terra-Dome" house

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
Could be an interesting job but sounds like a pain in the rear.

Interesting maybe, if you consider standing around with the next piece of conduit waiting for the form guys to be ready for you interesting. :roll:

And then when they are waiting on you they will be telling you to hurry up and take short cuts that can only screw you on the finish long after they are gone.

I hate working with masons and form guys, IMO this sounds like a PITA.

 

[dillon3c]

Re: "Terra-Dome" house

In the way it sounds..I'd use the approach of roughing-in and wiring methods, just like any other "cast-in-place" concrete structure, of commercial design.

But not being the "dwelling electrician" and never had seen or reviewed the such, of these dwelling plans..Can't see it being installed in rough-any other way..PVC raceway,metalic device boxes,pulled tight to form w/ short sections of allthread and fenderwashers w/ nuts.Round octagon concrete,or even 4 square w/ring taped with duct-tape.Green equipment bonding jumpers installed in outlet boxes, before installation.

Really fairly simple operation installation, and maybe one of design in this dwelling..One I'd personally be interested in.(very good work and differance in price)

But certainly, would be of the "hands-on" situation of rough-in stage on your part..I'd never rely or even begain to trust, the other guy/trade to watch a pour involving my raceways in situation of this.("never").A must,in you being involved..

I'd personally be interested in hearing more,about this this dwelling unit Installation.If you care to take job and share in your methods throughout..

 

[jimwalker]

Re: "Terra-Dome" house

While nec does not deal with any licensing or inspections your state and town probably do.I would not even begin talking to the GC untill i talked this over with the ahj.Most places want to inspect conduit.There is also the issue as mentioned if the conduit is under sized or ran wrong.Being this is not a normal house i don't see how you could bid it fairly.You might be far better off to tell him it's T and M and your only responsable for the part you did.Perhaps they built others where the ahj was ok with them doing electrical with no license.Unless you really need the work i would bid this on the very high side if they won't take T&M

 

[George Stolz]

Re: "Terra-Dome" house

Definutely T&M, unless you're hiding a lot of commercial experience up your sleeve we don't know about, Scott

Edit: I'd love to help on a house like this!

[ June 19, 2005, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]

 

[luckyshadow]

Re: "Terra-Dome" house

It seems it would be very similar to commercial / industrial rough ins. Make sure you use duct tape and tape the entire box ! That concrete is poured very thin and will fill up the box if it finds a way in. I would suggest 3/4 pipe min. forget 1/2"
Just my 2 cents

I was just at the Terre Dome web site - interesting concept. I did go to their pricing link and took notice of they already include prices for " electrical single box - $25.00 "
How can you bid this if they are quoting
$25.00 boxes ??
Just curious

[ June 19, 2005, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: luckyshadow ]

 

[dillon3c]

Re: "Terra-Dome" house

Oh,scott,

Something else to ponder..Points of referance in rough-in stage of -round- "cast-in-place" structures.Points of referance may be limited.

I see you turning 90 degrees out of poured wall, or slab to interior walls.You may have no more that 3 5/8"play in exact location -(perfection)-

Buy the Plumber a case of beer..I see you getting to know him well..Could be your best friend in this rough..

 

[jimwalker]

Re: "Terra-Dome" house

I may be wrong but can't help but think this is one of them get 10 bids type job.Low bid gets job and looses his shirt.Some GC operate on that system.A few years ago when i was working for a residential EC we had a customer that always had screwed up houses,never followed plans,even went so far as to barry the trash in the back yard (illegal as it can get here).Was greatfull to the inspector steering us on dumping this GC.They had been thru many many EC.Method was burn each one about 10 times till they said we don't want your work.I noticed a friend starting one across the street from the one we were finishing,gave him some free advice.Far as i know they only did one.

You need to be real carefull with this house,it does lean more to commercial and $25 per box is not near enough.
You might try this idea,ask them where else in your town they built any and then check to see who did the electrical.Then see if any one EC did more than one for them.

 

[iwire]

Re: "Terra-Dome" house

Originally posted by jimwalker:
I may be wrong but can't help but think this is one of them get 10 bids type job.Low bid gets job and looses his shirt.

Jim FWIW I don't think your wrong, I think you are right on the money.

 

[dillon3c]

Re: "Terra-Dome" house

A design of this nature..I see you buying EMT, to -Burn-.

Driving of stakes,pulling of string to center of structure in "multi-pie"configuration(sun-dial and cross checking,line popping).If GC that undertakes this project, has no experiance of round structure of this nature..-Walk away from this- .I've seen larger commerical experianced GC's,easly miss-place supporting columns in "larger round" cast-in -place structures.

This is and will be the type of job,and please forgive me for saying so,can/could wipe you out.

Their is probably many of small contractor,seen their waterloo,in the lay-out and installation of this type.

Depending on your GC,limited help in lay-out.If you rely on his -control lines-(if you can nail him down on it)get him to John Handcock your locations on contract documents.(fat-chance)

But I'd willing to bet,he'll be smarter than that..He can be 3-4 inches wrong(off-out of wack) in foundation,your screwed..On the other hand,you pull it off in perfection,look for other GC to be burning your phone up for the next dwelling alike..

Your true friend..is going to be the Plumber..

[ June 19, 2005, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: dillon3c ]

 

[iwire]

Re: "Terra-Dome" house

Gee I wonder if Dillon has been there done that before?

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: "Terra-Dome" house

Originally posted by iwire:
Gee I wonder if Dillon has been there done that before?
At this point I don't know who is building this thing. I was contacted by the homeowner directly. It seems as though they might be acting as gc. I don't know for sure that it is a low ball situation yet but I think I could sell myself if I had to. The question is do I want to? Anyway I'll be asking questions tomorrow and I'll be back with an update.

 

[growler]

Re: "Terra-Dome" house

I have never tried a project like this. But I think someone is confused. I just looked at Terra-Dome site pricing plan and I think the $25 pr. box is the added cost for Terra-Dome and has nothing to do with the electrical cost. It is my guess that the extra cost is for concrete finish around the box. I seriously doubt if Terra-Domes cost includes the electrical work ( this will be up to the owner or builder). So I would bid very high because most contractors will pass on this one. If they ( Terra-Domes ) did electrical construction they would do the whole thing and they will need a permit even for temp. power.