Smoke Damper Connection to Emergency Power

[brentp]

Re: Smoke Damper Connection to Emergency Power

Roger,

I'm not sure I'm following you. I know the fire alarm system will be on life safety and will be 'controlling' the dampers via relays. I'm questioning whether the damper motors themselves can be on life safety. I'm just used to seeing designs where dampers are either on normal or equipment branch. But then again, just when I think I've got something figured out, I read this %&*$ forum.

Brent

 

[roger]

Re: Smoke Damper Connection to Emergency Power

Hello Brent,

But then again, just when I think I've got something figured out, I read this %&*$ forum.

LOL ain't that the truth!!!

For sake of conversation, what branch should the door holders (if 120v) be fed from?

Roger

 

[brentp]

Re: Smoke Damper Connection to Emergency Power

Roger,

120v door holders, or 120v dampers, what's the difference? Just don't put 'em on life safety.

BTW, you said door holders, not automatic doors.

Brent

[ June 16, 2004, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: brentp ]

 

[roger]

Re: Smoke Damper Connection to Emergency Power

Brent, if we are not supposed to put 120 v door holders on the "Life Safety" branch, what about 24 v door holders on a suplementary FA power supply fed from a seperate "Life Safety" branch circuit, would this be any different?

Roger

 

[brentp]

Re: Smoke Damper Connection to Emergency Power

Roger,

I see your point and it's a good one. I don't have an answer. Maybe, technically, 24v door holders shouldn't be driven directly from the power supply? I don't know.

I've always looked at the fire alarm system as just that, an 'alarm' system. It gives an alarm signal to relays and such, which cause a chain of events. This 'fits' the description of 517.32(C). I don't see where dampers, door holders, fire doors, smoke evac, fire pumps... could be put on the life safety branch as they are not alarm or alerting systems, but rather a part of the fire protection system.

Maybe NFPA 101 would clear things up for me. I'll try to find out what the FPN in 517.32(C)(1) is talking about later.

Brent

 

[steve66]

Re: Smoke Damper Connection to Emergency Power

NFPA 101, 12.3.4 is fire alarm systems for assembly occupancies. It refers to detection and notification.

I believe the 7.6 is a typo. That refers to distance to means of egress. 9.6 Fire detection, alarm and communications is more likely the reference. It does say in 9.6.1.9 that

For the purposes of this Code, a complete fire alarm system shall be used for initiation, notification, and control and shall provide the following.
(a) Initiation. The initiation function provides the input signal to the system.
(b) Notification. The notification function is the means by which the system advises that human action is required in response to a particular condition.
(c) Control. The control function provides outputs to control building equipment to enhance protection of life.

That tends to say that a smoke or fire damper can be part of the fire alarm system.

Steve

 

[brentp]

Re: Smoke Damper Connection to Emergency Power

Thanks for the info Steve, but in my little mind it reenforced my position.

(c) Control. The control function provides outputs to control building equipment to enhance protection of life.

Does everything that the fire alarm system 'control' become a part of the system? If so, there are many items, like I've listed in my previous post, that could be put on the life safety branch. For ex... just because the fire alarm sytem signals a roll up fire door to close does not mean this door can be put on the ls branch. I stand to be corrected.

I'm sorry for dragging this topic out, but when my ideas are being flushed down the toilet, I at least need to make an attempt to keep my head above water.

Brent

 

[roger]

Re: Smoke Damper Connection to Emergency Power

Hello Brent,

I'm sorry for dragging this topic out, but when my ideas are being flushed down the toilet, I at least need to make an attempt to keep my head above water.

I think you are presenting good points or arguments.

Right or wrong in your view or that of others, (myself included) this is an interesting topic.

In the end a "Fail Safe" system is the desired conclusion, and I can see this accomplished in a number of ways.

Roger

 

[brentp]

Re: Smoke Damper Connection to Emergency Power

I appreciate your response Roger. I don't want to come across as argumentative on this board. I'm truly trying to seek information. Again, I have the utmost respect for the people that are gathered here. That might sound a little corny, but oh well.

Ps-I ain't out to hug anybody either.

Brent

[ June 17, 2004, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: brentp ]

 

[roger]

Re: Smoke Damper Connection to Emergency Power

Brent,

Again, I have the utmost respect for the people that are gathered here.

I do too, and you are one of the gathered.

I'll steer away from the group hug also.

Roger