New Telephone Systems VOIP

[wirenut1980]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

I had AT&T Callvantage for a few months, but am now switching back to landline with expensive SBC. The call quality was horrible. Several long cutouts on the upload side (me talking). Something must have been wrong with my setup, but AT&T couldn't figure it out in 3 months, and neither could I.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

Bob,

At some point, if people want to use VOIP, they are going to have to accept the minor problems that not being at your regular address is going to bring if you use it elsewhere.

If the problem was only when you were away from your normal place of business it would not be as bad, but VOIP does not provide any location information to the 911 call center no matter where you are located.

 

[petersonra]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

Originally posted by don_resqcapt19:
Bob,

At some point, if people want to use VOIP, they are going to have to accept the minor problems that not being at your regular address is going to bring if you use it elsewhere.

If the problem was only when you were away from your normal place of business it would not be as bad, but VOIP does not provide any location information to the 911 call center no matter where you are located.

But it could easily provide a default address. that would not require some expensive and convoluted system, that is maybe unworkable anyway.

I just don't see the need. I have to wonder why we are willing to spend billions of dollars to get address information to deal with the few hundreds of annual calls to 911 where the person is unable to speak.

I read that the area I am in is spedning something like $12 million to deal with about 10 calls a year that might qualify. It just seems excessive.

 

[tony_psuee]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

petersonra,

I just don't see the need. I have to wonder why we are willing to spend billions of dollars to get address information to deal with the few hundreds of annual calls to 911 where the person is unable to speak.

About 8 years ago my oldest son was knocked unconscious while playing at my parents house. Everyone there froze, except for my wife who instructed my brother to go inside and call 911. My brother promptly gave the 911 operator his out of state street address. Fortunately my area had the beginning of the E911 system and the operator questioned him and confirmed the address the ambulance needed to be sent to. To me the cost for the system is insignificant when I'm the one that needs it. I would have to imagine that with the life of the equipment amortized the installation cost is more reasonable. In a way the same with refineries and power plants, no one wants one around but when they can't get what they make everyone is PO'd.

VOIP is appealing, but not at this time for me. Right now I would rather have cell coverage at my house.

Tony

 

[petersonra]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

no offense but what are we willing to pay for this service?

is it worth $1 million per call? $10 million? th

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

Bob,
It is a lot more than a few calls. Our little town of 18,000 has about 100 itself each year where there is no voice or just someone screaming in the background. Some of these are kids, but a lot of them are domestic violence cases. As far as the cost of E-911, it is a lot more cost effective in saving lives than the AFCI rule.
Don

 

[hbiss]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

I just don't see the need. I have to wonder why we are willing to spend billions of dollars to get address information to deal with the few hundreds of annual calls to 911 where the person is unable to speak.

It goes beyond people unable to speak. How long does it take to give your name and address and have it understood especially under emotional or adverse conditions? Those minutes or even seconds can mean someone's life.

The cell phone manufacturers have been ordered to incorporate GPS receivers in their phones because there is no way to know where the call is coming from.

I have no problem with VOIP technology just the scam artists that provide it. They suck you in with low cost then give you substandard service that could even cost you your life.

-Hal

 

[hbiss]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

And you know, I can't believe I'm hearing stuff like why do we have to spend so much money because of 10 people a year from one of us.

Aren't WE the ones who HAVE to install GFI's, AFCI's, proper grounding, etc.? How much money does it cost the customer vs how many lives does it save? I don't hear anybody complaining about that.

We have the knowledge and technology to save lives, you can't put a price on it and say it isn't worth it.

-Hal

 

[coppertreeelectric]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

Just a quick note and I have to run..

#1 The VOIP does work in most areas, but yes mine is an area that it does not.

#2 If you leave a phone plugged into you land line even after you cancel you phone service you will reach 911.

Simply instruct people in your house that "this is the phone to use incase of an emergency."

That simple nothing more nothing less. We have been using VOIP for two years and I have zero complaints. We just save money and still have a 911 service via the land line.

 

[coppertreeelectric]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

#1 The VOIP does work in most areas, but yes mine is an area that it does not.

I meant to say "#1 The VOIP 911 does work in most areas, but yes mine is an area that it does not."

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

#2 If you leave a phone plugged into you land line even after you cancel you phone service you will reach 911.

Not around here...as soon as you cancel your landline service, it is disconnected from the switch...no way to call anyone, even 911.
Don

 

[coppertreeelectric]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

Not around here...as soon as you cancel your landline service, it is disconnected from the switch...no way to call anyone, even 911

For some reason I beg to differ.
Have you tried it?

The LEC is required nation wide to supply 911 access from every dwelling.

If you dont have 911 I would bring it up with the LEC.

 

[charlie]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

OK guys, my VoIP is through Comcast and I just called 911 to ask if they knew where I was calling from, they nailed my address. Additionally, Comcast has batteries at each amplifier location to power the system, and the cable/telephony modem also has a battery in case of a power outage. Tell me what is so bad about the system except for the cost savings.

 

[hbiss]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

Actually cable companies who provide VOIP seem to be the better providers quality wise. That's probably because they (and I'm assuming here) that the call comes into their head end from their cable network then goes out to the local TELCO.

Vonage and others rely on the internet from the cable company or DSL central office to convey the call to their location.

-Hal

 

[dereckbc]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

Originally posted by charlie:
OK guys, my VoIP is through Comcast and I just called 911 to ask if they knew where I was calling from, they nailed my address. except for the cost savings.[/b]

OK I have stayed out of this long enough. Charlie yours worked because you use a local CATV provider who has their own switching and routing equipment in your locality who graciously provides ANI to the 911 network. This is fine for you but most who use a third party providers like Vonage are not local and do not provide ANI info.

There is a lot of different scenarios. Again picking on you Charlie, but I suspect your CATV provider is also your IP and CATV provider, so you get a lot of discounts. What about someone who uses Comcast and third party like Vonage. They pay higher rates because they are CLEC, added service in addition to the cable, and have to pay usage fees.

Lets do away with the notion if you use VOIP that you are getting away from the big bad BELL. Very wrong, who do you think is carrying all that internet traffic? It is not your VOIP provider unless it is big bad BELL via DSL.

AS VOIP starts to cut into traditional switched networks, government is going to wise up and regulate. When they do, then a lot of the cost savings will be voided by taxes. This is what Don and Hal have eluded too. Who do you think is paying for 911 and rural telephone services? It is you the city dweller via taxes on privately owned networks like big bad BELL. Charlie hate to pick on you again, but I know you know who RUS is and the taxes added on every ones electric bill so the Hatfileds and McCoys can have electricity at their house in Po Dump, AR at the expense of private utilities. Same goes for 911 and rural telephone services. Right now VOIP is not paying, but they will soon.

[ June 14, 2005, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: dereckbc ]

 

[charlie]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

 

[stud696981]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

-------------------------------------------------VOIP is appealing, but not at this time for me. Right now I would rather have cell coverage at my house.
-------------------------------------------------

Cell coverage works great, but 911 on a cell phone is not always a great feature. For example here in S.E. Michigan, most cell 911 calls are routed to Michigan State Police Dispatch. They then have to manually route the call to the proper law enforcement agency after finding out where you are and what the problem is. I might also add that some of these dispatchers routing calls got the job for the wrong reasons and have no business doing this job. In my area I would recommend dialing the 7 digit number and talking direct with the local police.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

Out here in Po Dump, CO ( or Nunn

 

[petersonra]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

Its that way ehre too George. the whole county is on the same 911 network and when you call 911 it gets routed down to the big bureaucracy where it eventually gets dispatched out to the correct agency.

it works pretty well considering all the infighting and pettiness that goes on over who controls what and how many agencies they dispatch for, and that many are volunteer fire departments.

 

[silverbk]

Re: New Telephone Systems VOIP

Originally posted by hbiss:
I just don't see the need. I have to wonder why we are willing to spend billions of dollars to get address information to deal with the few hundreds of annual calls to 911 where the person is unable to speak.

It goes beyond people unable to speak. How long does it take to give your name and address and have it understood especially under emotional or adverse conditions? Those minutes or even seconds can mean someone's life.

The cell phone manufacturers have been ordered to incorporate GPS receivers in their phones because there is no way to know where the call is coming from.

I have no problem with VOIP technology just the scam artists that provide it. They suck you in with low cost then give you substandard service that could even cost you your life.

-Hal

I'm in NYC and due to the nature of my employment I call 911 on an almost daily basis. These are skilled operators, some say the best in the country, and on every call they ask: Where's your emergency? What borough is that in? So even if the info is in front of them, that's not necessarily where the emergency is.

As far as people that cannot speak, I have answered more ERS no contact boxes than I can remember, it's the equivilent of a 911 hang up, except they occur on FDNY alarm boxes, and after 15 years not one has been an emergency. In fact FDNY policy states that during daytime hours they don't even send anyone to the box, after 11PM they send only one engine company.

This is in a large city with lots of people around, I would imagine in some of the more rural areas the GPS, and E911 may be more crucial in finding where the emergency is.