need help

[southernboys]

hey guys ive got a couple of similar jobs coming up that involve me wiring sheds. they will involve me digging ditches to run pvc pipe to the sheds how do you guys charge for digging ditches by the foot or by the hour do you charge a premium on the hour? also how much do you guys for wiring up the 4 ckt panels and then do you go by opening per outlet and fixture im just trying to keep these jobs in a respectable range to other electricians so any suggestions will be truely appreciated

 

[celtic]

Re: need help

Me...

Rent a trencher (ditch witch) and "try" and get all digging done in a day on all sites (if feasible). Charge by the foot (linear).

The rest, pretty much standard charges for running pipe/wire, panels and CBs, charge per opening - making adjustments in price as neccessary (heights over 8' ladder reach), etc.
I usually run my estimates ad convert everything to per opening then compare to sq. ft pricing - and compare those to my last 2 jobs(which have already been averaged sq.fter opening)...making changes as needed. If it takes me a little longer on paper that's better than coming up short on money.

 

[charlie]

Re: need help

You also want to make sure that you are not liable for hitting anything that is already in the ground. Call for locates on the site before starting a trencher but the utilities will not locate the customer's stuff if anything is already buried (telephone lines, finger systems, pipe to the well, etc.).

 

[southernboys]

Re: need help

im going to dig the ditches by hand as they are relative short runs two of them total maybe 75 ft. this will of course help me avoid hitting any pipes or cable lines. how much do you guys charge per foot as soon as I have all of the specs Ill post them and if you guys dont mind maybe you can check my prices and make sure im not too low thanks again for the help

 

[charlie]

Re: need help

I found out years ago the shovels do not fit my hands well. I also found out that if the job is really hard to do, I didn't have the correct tools and maybe enough help.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: need help

All things being equal, call for locates anyway. (They do show a shovel in their propaganda.)

 

[jimwalker]

Re: need help

Be carefull even hand diging.Few years back i was handed project to wire a garage ?(had 4 ceiling fans,AC,windows,outside door,tv,phone,more like office)any ways my boss asked if i wanted a ditch witch.Turned that down because it was only about 80 feet and was scared what all we might hit.Before my helpers were finished they managed to hit the sprinkler low volt wire,the UF too water pump and the gas line from inground tank to the house.We did not look good and this was the home of one of our major contractors

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: need help

Originally posted by southernboys:
im going to dig the ditches by hand as they are relative short runs two of them total maybe 75 ft.

Could not pay me enough. Not to be snotty but I am an electrician not a ditch digger.
75 feet 18" deep is ALOT of digging.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: need help

Diging is sometimes part of being an electrician,as is attic crawling,and drywall cutting,and chipping and cutting concrete.If you say no to all of these it might cut down your jobs.There is a way around this,simply call your local labor pool.They have plenty of down on there luck people that will gladly dig just to be able to eat.

 

[active1]

Re: need help

How much diging can you do in 1 hour? Say summertime 18"+ with a dry hard rocky ground. It seemed like around 25' an hour average. More at first of coarse.

We almost never get a trencher because the length is normaly 25-75'. Does not seem like it is worth the time renting, cleaning, refueling, & returning.

We just figure our hourly charge x feet we can dig per hour. Also figure time back filling & clean-up. It comes to around $4/foot.

Tom

 

[jimwalker]

Re: need help

There are somethings we are just smart not to be good at If you show the boss your good at it then guess what you get in your hand ?

 

[studiac]

Re: need help

Originally posted by active1:
How much diging can you do in 1 hour? Say summertime 18"+ with a dry hard rocky ground. It seemed like around 25' an hour average. More at first of coarse.

We almost never get a trencher because the length is normaly 25-75'. Does not seem like it is worth the time renting, cleaning, refueling, & returning.

We just figure our hourly charge x feet we can dig per hour. Also figure time back filling & clean-up. It comes to around $4/foot.

Tom

I'll be willing to bet that if you dug 15 foot of the clay around here you would think different.

 

[drg]

Re: need help

Digging a trench is a weird sort of business that has a lot of variables that can come about, such as soil types ,tree roots,pipes,big rocks,and a assortment of other buried treasures that can suprise you.
I would charge a houly rate and think that if you try to charge per foot "you can" find yourself working for next to nothing.......

In my opinion a 75 foot trench 18" deep in a sandy soil condition is childs play , but thrown in big tree roots , or some breaker rock its now hard back breaking work .......

If you doing this trench in clay or some sort of black soil that binds a strong root system this can be a tough dig by hand and 75 feet is going to test you and your shovel......Its done everyday by some lucky soul.

I did a trench for a neighbor last fall and he had a "Aborist" inspecting his property ......this fellow told me that cutting the large tree roots could cause and tree to have section die off or weaken the root system where the tree could fall over and that I could be liable if damages where caused because I cut these large roots.....
I had a backhoe and chain saw but wound up tunneling under approx. 20 feet of so of these roots so not to damage this huge "cottonwood"
It was probaly one the hardest things I have ever done and took me 11 hours and 4 hours of a friend that I called to help me out.

My neighbor paid us very well to do this but I don't think I would do something like this again, and now I worry about cutting large tree roots when running a trencher.....and pipes....and cables and bumping into buildings ......maybe some day I will never have to dig again but don't see that happening anytime soon ...In the mean time I guess Ill just make the best of it all and try and keep all 4 wheels on the ground and not back into any chain link fences with the trencher chain raised and rotating.......you should be safe with your shovels and hope it runs smoothhh for you.

 

[charlie]

Re: need help

I wouldn't think he would care that much about a cottonwood. As fast as they grow, he could plant another one and have just as big a tree in a couple of years. OK, they don't grow that fast but it sure seems that way when they are under our lines.

 

[iwire]

Re: need help

When I have input into the job I ask the customer point blank.

"Do you want to pay licensed electricians to dig or would you like to find some cheaper labor?"

This almost always results in the customer hiring a landscaper, excavating contractor or even temporary laborers.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: need help

I was told never to suggest dig it yourself to a customer.They hired us to do the job.I will use excavating engineers from the local labor pool.Handing shovels to journeymem electricians is a fast way to lose them to another company.Only way i can see using your men for diging is if it is a very easy dig of maybe under 100 feet that will take them an hour.An x boss told me he has far too much other work he needs me for than to have me dig.A few have even told me if they see a shovel in my hand i am fired.

 

[iwire]

Re: need help

Originally posted by jimwalker:
I was told never to suggest dig it yourself to a customer.They hired us to do the job.

I think this is one of those issues that depends a lot on where you live and what all the other ECs do.

In my area very few ECs dig and fewer still own equipment to do so.

At the same time I see many plumbing contractors that own backhoes in this area and I have read that many ECs in other areas own excavating / trenching equipment.

The companies I have worked for stuck with electric work, we where not GCs or excavating contractors.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: need help

I did have a GC that offered to have his own men dig the ditch for a cheeky hut in his back yard.Since he gave me tons of work i not only let him but wired it for under the table money.But this is something you best not suggest on your own.The customer might start to think if they need you for the rest of the job.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: need help

Originally posted by jimwalker:
Since he gave me tons of work i not only let him but wired it for under the table money.

Jim, I help you out, and then you just jump back in.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: need help

Come on now George, we all do extra things for select contractors