Is a permit required to replace (not upgrade) an electric panel and the breaker switches?

[ramsy]

I wouldn’t change the ampage, it would just be a replacement. Would this type of job require pulling a permit?

Home Depot's instructions for dwelling wiring omit critical information.

Residential Electrical Code Requirements

The NEC sets requirements for residential systems, including boxes, grounding and outlets as well as rooms with higher energy demands such as kitchens.

www.homedepot.com

Buyers of existing homes beware, this is how previous owners, and handy-persons, tamper with electrical.

Ignoring the meter spot.
Electrical Service Requirements (ESR) for utility connections are published separately from the NEC.
Building permits coordinate with utilities to check power lines. Especially for load-calc ampacity, corroded messengers, flood damage to laterals, land subsidence, collapsing poles, lines tangled in trees, and the weight of blowing winds on fuse box mast connections.

Ignoring the Load Calc.
Building permits check for amperage changes after old gas water heaters, ranges & clothes dryer are replaced with tankless, electric appliances, or adding outlets for hydromessage, hot tub, air conditioner, pool, car charger, or patio cover / garage converted to rooms.

What Home Depot wont tell you, is that homes are now exploding like bombs, with increased hazards, missing safety devices, or undersized wire that gets hotter than your iPhone battery.

When thermal runaway in conduit melts the wire & short circuits, it either explodes, or burns like a fuse with all the power from the utility sub-station, igniting the structure, trees, and everything in its path, or the gas tank bomb in the garage.

The fact that licensing law won't require permits below certain dollar limits, much less in states without licensing, or in unincorporated regions, changing a fuse box regardless of amperage, always requires compliance with current utility ESR's, and insurance policy safety inspections.

Insurance requirements typically reference a national safety standard, which includes an IRC or NEC load calc, a modern electrode connection for lighting strikes, safety devices sized for the wire & listed for the fuse box.

Since nothing avoids property tax, permits and inspection authorities more than re-sold real estate, and mortgage industry re-financing, the unqualified persons that experiment with DIY improvements, and owner builder hack jobs that make new careers in the remodel economy, are all leaving their mess to the next buyer without disclosing the construction defects.

 

[tom baker]

Did the AHJ pass an amendment allowing this for new construction?

We get lots of transients in my area. SPD's die quickly and become useless.

GFCI's and AFCI's in existing work per 406.4(D)(3&4) have always lasted longer behind 50+ feet of high impedance #12 or #14 branch wire.

That’s the SPD doing its job. Otherwise your electronics take the hiit

 

[mtnelect]

With the HVAC & Electrical inspections I do with the CSLB 95% are done without a permit.

 

[mtnelect]

With the HVAC & Electrical inspections I do with the CSLB 95% are done without a permit.

Also, when a permit is pulled, the contractors often do not call for a final inspection ... the homeowner thinks the work passed inspection when the contractor shows them the permit !

 

[Jraef]

I think this is a question for your local building dept. around here, anything costing $500 or more requires a permit. It’s highly unlikely you could replace a panel for less than that.

But as others have said, it’s doubtful that this is an issue with your panel age. 40-50 years is a stated average for breaker life but there are lots of mitigating factors involved, especially if the breaker manufacturer is not defunct. 50 years is now 1974, I see plenty of stuff built in the 50s and 60s that use breakers that are still made and supported, no problems whatsoever, such as Square D QO series, Bryant/Eaton BR series, Siemens /Murray /ITE QPs , Eaton/Cutler Hammer CH series, etc. No compelling reason to change those just because of age.

Side issue: in another thread about unlicensed contractors, I raised the specter of what’s happening around here (California) all too frequently, that of unlicensed contractors and handymen copying down legitimate licensed contractors’ license numbers, knowing that most people don’t check or even know that they should. But if they go to apply for a permit, they ARE checked. So those scammers are often encouraging customers to NOT get a permit.

 

[mtnelect]

With the HVAC & Electrical inspections I do with the CSLB 95% are done without a permit.

When I check with the AHJ, I find that the permit has expired and there is no follow up with them.

 

[ramsy]

When I check with the AHJ, I find that the permit has expired and there is no follow up with them.

Open permits found by title insurance are supposed to hold up property sales, until resolved, since mortgages are disqualified.

When fewer properties are available for sale, bidding wars can result in cash offers that skip the title check, much less home inspections. During the pandemic cash bids in my area were paying over 1 million for termite infested, foundation damaged ramblers, which should have been demolished and completely rebuilt, but instead will be flipped & sold to the next sucker.

 

[mtnelect]

Open permits found by title insurance are supposed to hold up property sales, until resolved, since mortgages are disqualified.

When fewer properties are available for sale, bidding wars can result in cash offers that skip the title check, much less home inspections. During the pandemic cash bids in my area were paying over 1 million for termite infested, foundation damaged ramblers, which should have been demolished and completely rebuilt, but instead will be flipped & sold to the next sucker.

Article from the Wallstreet Journal shows that the majority of homes are bought by Wallstreet Investment Firms for cash.

 

[roger]

I hope the OP got something out of all of this that she can use.