Is a permit required to replace (not upgrade) an electric panel and the breaker switches?

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Sharonc

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Dallas, GA
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Therapist
I’ve been doing a bit of research on trying to get a new electric panel since it’s 20 years old. I wouldn’t change the ampage, it would just be a replacement. Would this type of job require pulling a permit? I spoke to an electrician advising AGAINST having one pulled since the county permitting manager tends to be very knit-picky. I’m in GA.

Thank yall!
 
infinity

infinity

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I don't know whether or not one is required in your jurisdiction but it's very likely that one is required. If your contractor doesn't want to pull one because the inspector might be picky means that he's probably not going to give you a code compliant installation.

Given the cost of electrical work a permit is cheap insurance to ensure that the job is down correctly. If one is required and the contractor doesn't want to pull a permit find someone else.
 
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Sharonc

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Dallas, GA
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Therapist
infinity said:
I don't know whether or not one is required in your jurisdiction but it's very likely that one is required. If your contractor doesn't want to pull one because the inspector might be picky means that he's probably not going to give you a code compliant installation.

Given the cost of electrical work a permit is cheap insurance to ensure that the job is down correctly. If one is required and the contractor doesn't want to pull a permit find someone else.
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That’s a really good point honestly. Thank you!
 
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John A

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New Jersey
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IMHO, find a electrical contractor that has a license (IF required in your area), and insurance. Someone who says that the county permitting person is nitpicky, may not have the 'credentials' needed to obtain a permit.
 
Joe.B

Joe.B

Senior Member
Location
Myrtletown Ca
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Building Inspector
Could be a simple as tightening a terminal, or as complicated as... well, complicated. A good, licensed electrician should be able to give you an idea of what you're up against.

I agree with the other replies you've got so far.
 
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hillbilly1

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North Georgia mountains
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A friend of mine just built a new house on the coast of Georgia, the inspection department required the afci’s, and the contractor charged my friend for them. I go to his house, wiring looks good. But no afci’s in the panel. I told him he must have taken them out after he got his inspection. He called the contractor, and he said he used afci outlets. Turns out he did, but not a one of them met the code requirements. The inspector let him put them at the first outlet of each run!
 
roger

roger

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Fl
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LarryFine said:
20 years is not old for electrical equipment. Why do you think the replacement is necessary?
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Agreed, my house was built around 1980 and the panel and breakers are fine. As mentioned, have an EC check everything. It could even be the POCO'S transformer. An EC should have something to monitor the service entrance for sags.
 
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NoahsArc

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
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Residential EC
Sharonc said:
Some lights in rooms are flickering and there’s slight discoloration in the wiring behind one of the breaker switches
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Light flicker could have nothing to do with the panel, especially if they're LED.
Replace the breaker, cut off the discolored part, reterminate properly torqued. Probably just was loose. Replacing the breaker is optional really, but they're like $5 and why risk it for $5.
This same guy that doesn't want you to pull a permit because he'll fail it is the one telling you that you need a whole new panel because of this???
Does he have some actually valid reason for the expense?
 
Joe.B

Joe.B

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Location
Myrtletown Ca
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Building Inspector
hillbilly1 said:
A friend of mine just built a new house on the coast of Georgia, the inspection department required the afci’s, and the contractor charged my friend for them. I go to his house, wiring looks good. But no afci’s in the panel. I told him he must have taken them out after he got his inspection. He called the contractor, and he said he used afci outlets. Turns out he did, but not a one of them met the code requirements. The inspector let him put them at the first outlet of each run!
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210.12(A)(4) has four conditions (a-d) so I'm guessing he violated one of those conditions?
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne

Seven-Delta-FortyOne

Goin’ Down In Flames........
Location
Humboldt
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EC and GC
Joe.B said:
210.12(A)(4) has four conditions (a-d) so I'm guessing he violated one of those conditions?
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As far as I know, there is no way to meet conditions A-D, as no one makes those devices.

The only way that I am aware of to avoid AFCI is to use BX cable and metal boxes from the OCPD to the first receptacle or outlet, and use an AFCI device there.
 
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ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
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Service Electrician 2020 NEC
hillbilly1 said:
The inspector let him put them at the first outlet of each run!
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Did the AHJ pass an amendment allowing this for new construction?

We get lots of transients in my area. SPD's die quickly and become useless.

GFCI's and AFCI's in existing work per 406.4(D)(3&4) have always lasted longer behind 50+ feet of high impedance #12 or #14 branch wire.
 
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letgomywago

Senior Member
Location
Washington state and Oregon coast
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residential electrician
Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:
As far as I know, there is no way to meet conditions A-D, as no one makes those devices.

The only way that I am aware of to avoid AFCI is to use BX cable and metal boxes from the OCPD to the first receptacle or outlet, and use an AFCI device there.
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Unless it's existing then afci outlets are allowed on just romex on existing circuits. This is assuming the ahj isn't interpreting it as a new circuit or its extended over 6ft
 
Joe.B

Joe.B

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Location
Myrtletown Ca
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Building Inspector
Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:
As far as I know, there is no way to meet conditions A-D, as no one makes those devices.

The only way that I am aware of to avoid AFCI is to use BX cable and metal boxes from the OCPD to the first receptacle or outlet, and use an AFCI device there.
Click to expand...
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