Irreversible connection

[dhalleron]

I've heard of them, but never thought much about it.

I need to drive a second ground rod to satisfy an inspector on this job. I already ran the wire to the first ground rod. How can I extend the #6 to the second ground rod without replacing the whole wire run with a continuous piece?

I don't know what they stock locally to do this with. I found a breakaway bolt on the web but it seems like it is only tamper resistant. What do you use to make the connection permanent that won?t make me buy a special tool?

I can run a new wire but it will take about 45 minutes or so.


Thanks,

 

[petersonra]

i think you can just run another wire. the connection between the two rods is a bonding jumper. only the GEC itself has to be continuous IIRC.

 

[iwire]

I agree with Bob, you are running a bonding jumper not a GEC

 

[dhalleron]

Maybe. But this inspector said continuous wire or irreversible splice.

No big deal to run new wire, but I just don't want to. It might just be easier to run new wire.

 

[iwire]

Maybe. But this inspector said continuous wire or irreversible splice.

No big deal to run new wire, but I just don't want to. It might just be easier to run new wire.

Well the inspector is wrong.

 

[infinity]

Well the inspector is wrong.

I agree and now would be a good time to educate him.

 

[eprice]

I agree with what the others have said. The inspector is wrong. The conductor from the first ground rod to the second is not a grounding electrode conductor. It is a bonding jumper. 250.64(F) may be useful in explaining this to him. Also see 250.53(C). Notice that this section requires the bonding jumpers to comply with portions of 250.64, but not 250.64(C).

 

[GoldDigger]

I agree and now would be a good time to educate him.

Looks like you could also comply simply by running an additional Bonding Electrode Conductor from the second rod all the way back to the ground bar in the panel, since that is what seems to have been done for the water pipe electrode.
There is one detail which is shown in Mike's illustration that might not have the emphasis it deserves. I do not think that you would be allowed to put the GEC and BEJ under the screw of the same single clamp on the primary grounding electrode. Since the bonding jumper has to connect to the electrode rather than to the GEC, you need the second clamp. (IMHO, YMMV.)

 

[readydave8]

What do you use to make the connection permanent that won?t make me buy a special tool?




Thanks,

I'd like to know the answer also, even though may not be necessary for project in question. Cadweld? Crimp? Any others?

 

[dhalleron]

Thanks all. I had forgotten some of the grounding rules that I seldom if ever use.

The rumor is when this inspector worked in the field he hung ceiling fans with toggle bolts on drywall.

He learned some and has gigged me on a few legitimate violations. This jurisdiction picks certain things as the way it is and it is difficult to show them the truth. This particular item isn't worth the fight. If I would have thought I needed 2 ground rods I would have done it his way because I was told years ago that's how they want it.

 

[GoldDigger]

I'd like to know the answer also, even though may not be necessary for project in question. Cadweld? Crimp? Any others?

Crimp requires special tools. Cadweld does not, but costs as much as if you had to buy a special tool anyway.
You are also limited as to where you can use it without starting a fire.

 

[ActionDave]

Crimp requires special tools. Cadweld does not, but costs as much as if you had to buy a special tool anyway.
You are also limited as to where you can use it without starting a fire.

It's been a while, but there were a couple of times I used a hammer and a big rock for anvil to make up an irreversible crimp because I didn't have the crimp tool on the truck.

I have know idea if it violated any listing for the crimp. I have never seen any instructions concerning them.

 

[GoldDigger]

I have know idea if it violated any listing for the crimp. I have never seen any instructions concerning them.

I have not seen any instructions for such crimp devices that that did not specify the manufacturer's own tool for compressing the crimp.
There may be some room for use of another manufacturer's tool whose own listing states that they are compatible with the first manufacturer's devices, but no latitude at all for a rock and hammer.
In some cases proper contact with all sides of the connected conductor(s) (particularly if the crimp is rated for multiple conductors) require pressure at several specified points (usually four to six) around the barrel. That cannot be done with a hammer.

(I might have done that too at some point myself, but I did not say that...)

 

[ActionDave]

I don't know who manufactures the crimps I use or the brand of tool I use. :ashamed1:
I buy the crimps by the piece at the supply house and the shops crimp tool is at least thirty years old.

 

[GoldDigger]

I buy the crimps by the piece at the supply house and the shops crimp tool is at least thirty years old.

My rock was older than that and the hammer was close.

<delete>

 

[mwm1752]

This route seems to confirm OP install. Even if 250.64( C ) is refered to there are 4 methods approved which describe the use of fittings to achieve "continuous" IMO

250.64 Grounding Electrode Conductor Installation
(F) Installation to Electrode(s). Grounding electrode conductor(s) and bonding jumpers interconnecting grounding
electrodes shall be installed in accordance with (1), (2), or (3). The grounding electrode conductor shall be sized for
the largest grounding electrode conductor required among all the electrodes connected to it.
(1) The grounding electrode conductor shall be permitted to be run to any convenient grounding electrode available
in the grounding electrode system where the other electrode(s), if any, is connected by bonding jumpers that are installed in accordance with 250.53(C).

250.53 Grounding Electrode System Installation
(C) Bonding Jumper. The bonding jumper(s) used to connect the grounding electrodes together to form the grounding electrode system shall be installed in accordance with 250.64(A), (B), and (E), shall be sized in accordance with 250.66, and shall be connected in the manner specified in 250.70.

 

[kwired]

Thanks all. I had forgotten some of the grounding rules that I seldom if ever use.

The rumor is when this inspector worked in the field he hung ceiling fans with toggle bolts on drywall.

He learned some and has gigged me on a few legitimate violations. This jurisdiction picks certain things as the way it is and it is difficult to show them the truth. This particular item isn't worth the fight. If I would have thought I needed 2 ground rods I would have done it his way because I was told years ago that's how they want it.

May not be worth the fight for this project, but how many other projects will you do where it will eventually make the fight worthwhile?

You do need two ground rods unless you can prove that one has a resistance of 25 ohms or less. See 250.53(A)(2) and the exception that follows. In fact wording in that section does help support the topic of this thread also, as it mentions permitted "bonding" locations for the "supplemental" electrode.

 

[GoldDigger]

May not be worth the fight for this project, but how many other projects will you do where it will eventually make the fight worthwhile?

You do need two ground rods unless you can prove that one has a resistance of 25 ohms or less. See 250.53(A)(2) and the exception that follows. In fact wording in that section does help support the topic of this thread also, as it mentions permitted "bonding" locations for the "supplemental" electrode.

Regardless of the order in which they were installed, I think that you have a free choice which is oeunary and which is supplemental. The primary is whichever one is connected by an unspliced GEC.

 

[tom baker]

Make the fight. This guy needs to know the code, otherwise he will have others making the same correction.

 

[GoldDigger]

Make the fight. This guy needs to know the code, otherwise he will have others making the same correction.

If you want to stay on good terms with him and not delay your job, fix it his way first, then make the fight, excuse me conduct the educational exercise. No fight involved, right?