Insurance company rejects fused disconnect
- Thread starter wyreman
- Start date
- Status
Well, there's no obvious reason. It is my understanding that insurance underwriters deny coverage based on actuary analyses (i.e. assessment by a risk assessor), typically based on statistics gathered and published by fire inspectors. A lot of details of detrimental events do not make it to the statistical level, so "gut" calls are often made by the actuary. In this case, it could be as simple as the equipment appearing dated that tipped the scale.
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
looks like a panel over a panel.
But as others have said not a violation.
But as others have said not a violation.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Is it possible the switches are not quick make/break? Do they know something about the fuses types being used?
JFletcher
Senior Member
- Location
- Williamsburg, VA
Maybe because it's possible to bypass the fuses? Then again, it's possible to bypass breakers as well, seen a few with a #10 or #12 stabbed into the mains lugs.
That Req could have changed since they were installed
That's a good one.
How about the lead splices where the little 60amp taps come from.
Actually. I didn't look to see if all the Apts have min 60a feeders
Better to have a meter bank
What a hardship!
They want me to write a letter saying "it's ok"
Well, it could be better!
I doubt the insurance company dug that deep. They probably just sawfishes and assumed an "upgrade" to circuit breakers was in order
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
i've had non fused disconnects rejected by insurance
underwriters.
carefully look at the label on the disconnects.
does it say "Zinsco" or "Federal Pacific"? yes?
the rejects i found were FPE non fused disconnects,
200 amp, 3 phase, with really cool art deco FPE labels.
contacts inside were all copper to copper. excellent
disconnect, great condition.
so i got out the little festool sander, sanded everything
nicely, spotted the rivet holes where the label fell off,
and painted everything with machine gray semi gloss
alklyd emulsion paint with a HVLP, and the property
owner called for an insurance company re inspection.
:angel:
cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
There's ten throw's not counting the main?
One looks like it's connected to another throw in the upper right of picture?
School me, I not a throw specialist...
Why is the insurance company involved?
Did the electrical inspector pass it?
Composing while Fulthrottle, seems to anwer all of it, but what about the multiple throws?
One looks like it's connected to another throw in the upper right of picture?
School me, I not a throw specialist...
Why is the insurance company involved?
Did the electrical inspector pass it?
Composing while Fulthrottle, seems to anwer all of it, but what about the multiple throws?
fp, 6 movements, etc
you guys are good! =)
There is a 400a 3p phase handle tho
Insurance must make annual checks or maybe they refinanced
Green tag from 1926? Might be on microfiche signed by 3stooges
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Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
well, you are dealing with trained professionals here....
here are the four key photos of a successful renovaton.
some of these were sourced locally, you'll have to do the best you can where
you are at... in the bay area, there is no shortage of boutique food providers.
1. neatly painted disconnect. no overspray, runs, etc. looks pretty factory.
2. safe internals on neatly painted disconnect. no arcing and burning, etc.
3. smartphone for locating treat at end of successful half days work.
4. ice cream.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Insurance companies have seen too many instances where a blown fuse was replaced with higher rated fuse or even some make shift "slug" was installed.
In general they do not like fuses because of this even if the installation is better protected then what circuit breakers may actually provide.
They have the right to refuse coverage or raise premiums if they don't like what they see.
Person being covered has the right to seek insurance elsewhere as well.
In general they do not like fuses because of this even if the installation is better protected then what circuit breakers may actually provide.
They have the right to refuse coverage or raise premiums if they don't like what they see.
Person being covered has the right to seek insurance elsewhere as well.
for me the immediate question is the owner wants me to write up a report saying "looks ok to me" on my letterhead.
Well - what is really the incentive for me to do that?
It would sure be better with new eq. in all the little ways - do some pm, bring it up to code [insul bonding bushings and check for other non conforming issues], get a green tag...
but the hardship - permits, co-ordinate with utilty estimater, costs etc... what a sticky spot.
I like the owners, I could just charge to write a letter - i dont see it being dangerous... but again- why?
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
I think the bigger issue is the old Edison base plug fuses and the tampering that was fairly common with them. But because of this some insurance underwriters balk at even hearing there is a fuse regardless of any other conditions.
I wouldn't state it is safe, that puts even more liability on your statement. I might state what is there complies with NEC, if I believe it is compliant or even state the equipment is aging but appears to be in well maintained condition.
ThunderFoot
Member
- Location
- Stockton, California
I agree with kwired.
A lot of times the fuses are replaced with the wrong size and a higher rating. I think this is why insurance companies don't want to reinsure.
A lot of times the fuses are replaced with the wrong size and a higher rating. I think this is why insurance companies don't want to reinsure.
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
insurance companies develop policies.
and it has to be a policy that someone without trade experience
can implement without having to call back to the mother ship
for instructions.
so, they look for *unworthy* products, and say replace or no
insurance. it's really a keyword search more than anything else.
zinsco, stab-lok, bulldog, push-matic, anything they have had
claims wrapped around....
and the big one for residential insurance... aluminum wire.
it's becoming a problem to insure without a rewire in some areas.
so, you get a twentysomething person with a checklist....
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
All of these pictures are of Non-Fused Disconnects.
Where are you all seeing the fuses at?
Is there even fuses in the Primary Disconnect ahead of the gutter or is it a Non-Fused Disconnect also?
The one large main disconnect would take care of the 6 movements or less rule but I guess I'm not seeing the whole picture of what's actually taking place here.:?
JAP>
Where are you all seeing the fuses at?
Is there even fuses in the Primary Disconnect ahead of the gutter or is it a Non-Fused Disconnect also?
The one large main disconnect would take care of the 6 movements or less rule but I guess I'm not seeing the whole picture of what's actually taking place here.:?
JAP>
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