Home Inspectors inspecting electric!

[iwire]

Re: Home Inspectors inspecting electric!

Originally posted by charlie tuna:
what happened before "home inspectors"?

prior to the closing you had a "walk through"! both the seller and the buyer met at the home and went through it and discussed any problem areas. the house would be empty at this time---

Times change, we can also ask what did we do before GFCIs, HMOs, or political correctness?

The fact is the home inspection industry is firmly established and it is not going away.

In this area it would be unusual that the house would be empty when it was for sale.

Most people can not afford to move into a new home before selling the old one.

There is also what I told to Jim

Many home buyers do not have the knowledge to understand what is normal and what is unusual.

Many home buyers do not wish to belly crawl under a house or walk a roof of a home they are interested in.

Lets say the home buyers are a 65 year old couple that has spent their life outside of the construction trades.

Just how would they inspect a house?

It is easy to mow your own yard work but many people still prefer to hire a landscaper to do it.

It is a service industry just like our trade.

[ January 08, 2005, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[charlie tuna]

Re: Home Inspectors inspecting electric!

of course the house is not empty when they first look at it and sign a contract--then qualify--now just prior to the closing---closing is when the sale actually happens and the house keys are presented to the new owners---- is when the "walk-through" occurs! as long as there is an option to have a home inspection or not to have a home inspection---thats fine with me. i just don't agree that it might become a requirement! like jim walker said ---i will sell mine "as is--where is"! same goes for the "new home owner's insurance" ---before i buy that i will agree to make the repairs myself for the first year! and i hate to see it in it's present condition - where in many states there are no guidelines to control or rule in responsibilties of their actions.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Home Inspectors inspecting electric!

I think im being mis understood.I am all for home inspectors and agree many buyers need help.My problem is what they are getting is of poor quality.Would rather pay more and get an inspection they will stand behind with for items they could have checked.Sounds like they are more like handymen than trades people.Very few handymen know anything about codes or what is safe in electrical.What good is a wrong answer.They need more education in all the trades to be of any real value.As to they are here to stay,never bet on that.Someone might start offering home repair insurance just like phone company contracting to take care of your jacks and wiring.Might see home buyer paying a grand for a years worth.Then we would see a real inspection first.

 

[hurk27]

Re: Home Inspectors inspecting electric!

Jim I agree with you on that point and I think this follows most trades. The quality will be as good as the law dictates it to be. Look at areas of our country that does not require a licenses for a electrical contractor? you have the same problem and allot of DYS's this also applies to HI's and other trades. we just had a new law pass here in Indiana that now requires HI's to be licensed but the existing HI's were grand fathered so it will be a few years before it all come around. I have run into good ones as well as bad ones, But here they are only allowed to inform and can not inforce anything so most of the time we over ride them when they require more than is required, and sometimes even add to there list when we see something that is dangerous. Yes they do give us work but as long as it is needed and wanted work then ok. But I just don't like to do work that is unnecessary and cost our costumers more than is needed. As my signature states.

 

[pqtest]

Re: Home Inspectors inspecting electric!

Hello-

Electrician or home inspector, I believe that wolfman56?s original post highlights a bigger problem: what is considered proper testing for receptacles or branch circuits? Most electricians and home inspectors use the exact same tools to check receptacles: a multimeter and a three lamp or Suretest circuit tester- so the odds are pretty good that anyone inspecting that home would have came to the same conclusion. As wolfman56?s troubleshooting demonstrated these tools can miss common wiring errors.

One problem we find frequently are neutral / ground conductors that have been reversed in the branch circuit or at the receptacle. N/G reversals can only be detected in two ways: using a 1500 dollar wiring analyzer that test two receptacles at once and performs a cross check between the conductors, or physically pulling each receptacle from the box and doing a visual check. The second choice might be OK if you are examining just a few branch circuits but is not practical for large scale or commercial projects, but in either case- who checks? What about testing neutral conductor impedance, equipment grounding conductor impedance, or receptacle spring clip tension- how many home inspectors or electricians test for these safety issues? My guess is almost none.

I certainly believe that an electrician will find more wiring/code violations than the typical home inspector, but since the electrical industry itself does not have a consensus receptacle or branch circuit testing procedure, I have a hard time holding others to a standard when we do not have one of our own.

Mark

 

[gndrod]

Re: Home Inspectors inspecting electric!

Mark, You hit the nail on the head like a true framer. IBC, UBC, NEC, are all agenda based to standardize to idiot proof the world. Did we vote for a Democratic Iraq? Look where we are now...trying to save the world from evil doers.

With all that said, I think electricians are savvy about our trade and are more honest (and articulate) than most politicians. Home Inspectors are franchised to give an opinion of what they see and that is the crux of the matter. They need a National Code too. (Not ASHI.)

BTW, do you know what the difference is between a home inspector and a car salesman?

The car salesman knows when he is lying...


rbj, Seattle

 

[iwire]

Re: Home Inspectors inspecting electric!

Originally posted by gndrod:

BTW, do you know what the difference is between a home inspector and a car salesman?

The car salesman knows when he is lying...


rbj, Seattle

That is uncalled for.

JMO, Bob

 

[gndrod]

Re: Home Inspectors inspecting electric!

Sorry Bob, but that is my reflective thinking from being called upon to follow up on some home inspections.

rbj, Seattle

 

[iwire]

Re: Home Inspectors inspecting electric!

Originally posted by gndrod:
Sorry Bob, but that is my reflective thinking from being called upon to follow up on some home inspections.

rbj, Seattle

Seems fair, I have read books that where not accurate so I guess that means all books are not to believed.

 

[charlie tuna]

Re: Home Inspectors inspecting electric!

iwire sir,
times "do" change and the idea of a 65 year old person not being capable of inspecting a home they are considering to purchase is a valid point.
but, from what i have seen as an electrical contractor,too many of these inspectors falsely list items that are actually grandfathered into the age of the house. it's great that we now have gfic receptacles, and that it would be a good idea to install them, or three wire receptacles or aluminum wire,etc.. but consider the 65 year old widow that was told the aluminum wire in her house was required to be replaced with copper and spent over five thousand dollars to bring her house "up to code" prior to selling it!!! it works both ways! and from what i read on this post ---some states have regulations on home inspectors and some don't! just like the electrical trade. and like the electrical trade--we have good and bad contractors reguardless of licensing laws or not. my own two cents about the "home inspectors" is that it is "a service" and should be controlled and licensed by law just like any trade. the owner should be insured and liable just like any trade contractor. and of course,they should be required to have the same continuing education requirements as trades people. from what i have seen, the general public considers their reports like "a code violation", when in fact it should be presented as an "option" or "recommendation". is it gonna solve the problems of false alarms--no---but it's a start!

 

[russellroberts]

Re: Home Inspectors inspecting electric!

The problem I run into frequently here with HI's is that in several Counties I work in,there's no AHJ. It's becoming a trend for homebuyers to have HI's inspect NEW homes.

Lots of them sort of backdoor the idea to Homeowners that they are qualified to inspect new construction.

They'll write up A,B,and C as being 'Poor Practices" or as in one case one wrote up "No Gfi receps in kitchen" not bothering to look at the gfci breakers in the panel for those ckts.

I'll agree that something is better than nothing,especially on an older house. But it can be a real headache when they start looking at new/rewire work.

Russell

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Home Inspectors inspecting electric!

They need to be carefull what they write or it could be used aginst them as slander in court.

 

[charlie tuna]

Re: Home Inspectors inspecting electric!

this is where the problem gets set aside because in most instances there is no set of required knowledge to hold this "new trade" responsible! if there is a need for this "new trade", then there should be some knowledge requirement that provides the customer a product of proper inspection results. i have seen houses that the owner removed some structural walls below the roof trusses. i have seen attics that the owner cut roof trusses to allow for more attic storage space. or added rooms without footers below the slab. i seriously doubt a home inspector would go to the county records to investigate the original house plan and compare it to the actual house? an electrical contractor can be held accountable for his work in a court of law. when there are no laws governing this "new trade", how can they be held accountable? from the home inspectors i have talked to-- many of them are like "wantabe" construction workers. they poke their noses into areas that they know very little about -- then write them up --- and when confronted by the real tradesman on the violation --- they claim "i didn't know that" or " thats not my specialty"! many of them in this area go to a school for their certificate---what ever the teacher's area of expertice is - is what they inspect and write up. i do know that the average home buyer releys on their knowledge as being correct and that scares me! like in the above post about, the gfi circuit breakers in place of receptacles, the home owner wouldn't care what the electrician told them, they would demand the gfi receptacles be installed!!!