Heated pavement

[Sky Products]

I’m posting this in the Canadian section because I thought Canadians might have more experience with heated driveways. I’m in Northern NJ waiting for the first snow storm of the season. I have 200amp service in my home. I’m putting in a new driveway in the spring and I was wondering about the electrical requirements per foot. I also have a Kohler 20KW standby generator. Is there a way to dedicate the generator to power a heated driveway during a snowstorm during an idle period. Cost to plow my 25x100 foot driveway is $250.
Just wondering if it would be possible and cost effective. Thanks.

 

[GoldDigger]

I am conditonally allowing this, since it does not appear to be requesting DIY information.

I have no experience with heated pavement in residential applications, so I cannot comment much.

But a good electrician will know how to add a separate manual transfer switch for the driveway heaters or the subpanel that feeds them. (As long as the generator has the needed capacity.)
It will then be the OP's responsibility not to use any other heavy loads while the generator is powering the pavement heater(s). Disconnecting rest of the house while heating the driveway does not seem practical.

During the driveway installation is certainly the right time to get the job done if you decide for it. Adding heating to an existing driveway essentially requires rebuilding the driveway.

 

[retirede]

Do you have gas available? If so, I’d put in PEX loops fed by a nat gas boiler. The cost to heat will be a fraction of electric.

 

[Sky Products]

Thanks, I guess with two power sources, generator and grid, the 20KW stand by generator could power the house while the 200 amp grid could exclusively power the heated pavement. I’m going to need a new driveway (pavers) this time anyway. It seems not too many contractors are experienced in this. My wife just informed me the plow is costing 350. Not bad but I have to wait for them to show up. Trying to plan ahead. Thanks again.

 

[Sky Products]

I do have propane, 1000 gallon tank, to power the 20KW Kohler generator.

 

[LarryFine]

I too think that embedded piping would be better than electric wiring.

You would then be able to choose or change the heating method at will.

 

[hillbilly1]

This has been around for years, legit? Haven’t seen any actual installs.

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[Sky Products]

I guess this stuff is rare in part because of the amount of power needed. Anyway thanks for the input. I think wire is the cheapest install and maintenance. Antifreeze would still have to be heated like another zone on my hydronic heat. Anything is possible I guess. In winter my oil furnace is already being used daily. No central air though so that’s why I’m thinking electric. No body is really up on this. It definitely exists I have seen YouTube videos on it. Nice just flip a switch and snow melts as it hits. I have oil heat, 2 propane fireplaces, standby generator, 2 propane stoves, 2 zone central air r-22 units. The 1000 gallon propane tank is the stored energy maybe hi capacity on demand water heater recirculating antifreeze is the answer
I have to do some research on that. Thanks guys, I never had so many responses to any question. Probably a few more after I finish this.

 

[Sky Products]

Larry, sounds good imbedded piping with on demand heater sounds good. Propane flame directly to heat exchanger directly to the water seems more efficient then propane to generator to wire. I will do research on propane and electric water heaters. You’re right about the choice of the heat supply.

 

[zbang]

Don't forget to compare the installed cost + operations vs plowing; $20k buys a lot of plowing (or buys a tractor & blower). (Dashes off to calculate the heat required to melt 6" of snow on 10' x 100' strip of concrete. Don't look for that info in the next few minutes.)

If you do go for the snow-melt drive, be careful of the grading so the water runs off and away from the house and drive, not into the garage .

 

[jim dungar]

Don't forget to compare the installed cost + operations vs plowing; $20k buys a lot of plowing (or buys a tractor & blower). (Dashes off to calculate the heat required to melt 6" of snow on 10' x 100' strip of concrete. Don't look for that info in the next few minutes.)

These snow melt systems need to be turned on before snow piles up.
A lot of energy is needed just to raise the temperature of the driveway to 32°. It may be more efficient to keep it at constant temperature rather than raising it.
If you try to melt inches of snow it is possible to create a gap between the driveway and deep snow, the resulting air gap is insulation and often prevents deep snow from being completely melted at all.

 

[Sky Products]

I have the snow blower but I’m due for 2 knee replacements. The cost to plow is not out of the question but sometimes they don’t show up till the next day. I’ve had it where they never showed up. One time my wife and I did 4’ of heavy snow and it was 6’ packed by the road. That was after 3 days waiting for a guy we never saw again. Tomorrow I’ll take out the snow blower and do it myself. I have a big old craftsman with tracks ….I hope it starts. Good night guys.

 

[LarryFine]

Antifreeze would still have to be heated like another zone on my hydronic heat.

You already have a hydronic system? Then that makes it an even better choice, in my opinion.

Yes, add a driveway loop or two to the existing system as an additional zone or two.

Electric heat is one setting for worst case conditions; hydronic is more flexible and adjustable.

 

[Sky Products]

I have oil a furnace at the back of my house. The propane tank is connected to the house gas lines near the driveway, about 20’ away. I have seen instant water heaters put on the outside of buildings. I need to check the options on those water heaters. 9.5 GPM.

 

[Sky Products]

Sorry, but I might need a… hate to say it plumber.

 

[tom baker]

Heated water as pointed out is a good choice. Boise has an extensive geothermal district heating system for sidewalks and buildings.
I have seen driveway heating on This Old House and they may of used ground water wells with water to water heat pumps.

 

[tom baker]

I have oil a furnace at the back of my house. The propane tank is connected to the house gas lines near the driveway, about 20’ away. I have seen instant water heaters put on the outside of buildings. I need to check the options on those water heaters. 9.5 GPM.

 

[tom baker]

I have a 180,000 BTU nat gas on demand water heater, yes they can be installed on the exterior but there are precautions to be taken in the event of freezing weather and power outages

 

[Sky Products]

I have the standby generator for power outage. I think some kind of eco friendly biodegradable automotive antifreeze with anti corrosion properties would be recirculated with same type of pump from a baseboard heating system. I’m guessing at this there is probably a packaged system already on the market.

 

[LarryFine]

I believe that aluminum-lined PEX (PEX-AL) is the tubing of choice these days.