why cut off the grounds?

[dan filipi]

I just stumbled across this site and after reading some posts I see that it's a great resource.

I'm a C-10 in So Cal. area since 1987.
I have seen on many jobs where a prior installer has cut the grounding conductor off at the sheath of #12 and #14 NMC making it impossible to reconnect to in order to land it legally on a ground screw or tie into other grounds. This seems to be done at switches,cans and light outlets but not at receptacles.

Can anyone explain where this mentality originated and why one would want to do such a thing?
On one job about 15 years ago, the customer said the inspector told him to do it that way, that doing so made it easier to identify the NMC that are switch legs, or something like that.
(Didnt make much sense to me either)!

Dan

[ January 11, 2005, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: danl ]

 

[peter d]

Re: why cut off the grounds?

Funny you mention that. I saw the same thing done when I visited southern CA in 1998.

I noticed it mostly at the switch boxes that contained a single cable for a switch loop.
My only guess was that at the time I visited, CA was using an older edition of the code (1993 or 1996?) that didn't require switch grounding, so the installer (I hesistate to call them "electricians") just cut them off.

I found the quality of wiring in new homes in SoCA to be atrocious, at least in the tract homes that dominate the area.

 

[peter d]

Re: why cut off the grounds?

Oh, to answer you question, "Why cut off the grounds?"

A few things come to mind: ignorance, inexperience, lack of proper training and supervision, carelessness, to name a few.

 

[petersonra]

Re: why cut off the grounds?

Originally posted by peter d:
Oh, to answer you question, "Why cut off the grounds?"

A few things come to mind: ignorance, inexperience, lack of proper training and supervision, carelessness, to name a few.

Or possibly no place to land them.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: why cut off the grounds?

Originally posted by danl:
II'm a C-10 in So Cal. area since 1987.
Dan

What is a "C-10"?

 

[peter d]

Re: why cut off the grounds?

Originally posted by petersonra:
]Or possibly no place to land them.

But we still have to follow 300.14. Grounding conductors aren't exempt just because we have no place to connect them.

 

[dan filipi]

Re: why cut off the grounds?

Sorry: I forgot different states have different terms,
C-10 is the Electrical contractor class designation for California.

[ January 11, 2005, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: danl ]

 

[iwire]

Re: why cut off the grounds?

Originally posted by peter d:
But we still have to follow 300.14. Grounding conductors aren't exempt just because we have no place to connect them.

Peter read the exception to 300.14

 

[dan filipi]

Re: why cut off the grounds?

Peter D: I pretty much feel what you say are the right reasons too. Mostly ignorance.

"My only guess was that at the time I visited, CA was using an older edition of the code (1993 or 1996?) that didn't require switch grounding,"

Interesting.
I wasnt aware there was ever a time from the early 80's to date that it was ok to NOT ground a metallic device in an electrical system or circuit, eg. the metal frame of a switch. ?
Even though most dont bother to utilize the ground screw on the standard single pole switches (myself included) it's there for this reason and has been for a long time

[ January 11, 2005, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: danl ]

 

[physis]

Re: why cut off the grounds?

I worked for C-10 who told me not to ground switches because the inspector didn't care. Some of these guys will not tolerate you wasting their money.

 

[dan filipi]

Re: why cut off the grounds?

It's true the inspector doesnt care most times.

I think it's overkill myself.

 

[peter d]

Re: why cut off the grounds?

Dan L,

Being an east coaster, I was only guessing that was the situation in CA since I never saw any grounding pigtails in switch boxes. Again, this was in every one of the massive home developments I visited so perhaps the speed/money factor was an issue. :roll:

There were so many mistakes and code violations it was mind boggling. I wondered if the inspector spent even 2 minutes per home.

While I was there, my friends asked me to put in a few dimmers and none of the switches I removed had a grounding terminal on them.

I think the requirement to ground switches in non-metallic boxes was put in the 1996 code. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

[ January 11, 2005, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]

 

[peter d]

Re: why cut off the grounds?

Originally posted by iwire:
Peter read the exception to 300.14

How about 250.148(B)?

[ January 11, 2005, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]

 

[bfd]

Re: why cut off the grounds?

They were probably cutting the ground off to take to the scrap yard so they could buy drugs, after they got a few pounds.

 

[dan filipi]

Re: why cut off the grounds?

"They were probably cutting the ground off to take to the scrap yard so they could buy drugs, after they got a few pounds."


Probaby right.
Funny, my brother said the same thing

 

[physis]

Re: why cut off the grounds?

I'm sorry you guys, but, I can't help thinking, don't these guys have jobs?

 

[dan filipi]

Re: why cut off the grounds?

I'm ditching work home sick.
I dont know about these other guys.

 

[physis]

Re: why cut off the grounds?

I mean the guys cutting off the copper wires while they're wiring.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: why cut off the grounds?

You're supposed to use them?

 

[physis]

Re: why cut off the grounds?

Stick dolls.