Went for a final uh-oh no rough in inspection

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

3 houses next to each other all done at the same time A passed rough,B passed rough,C was never inspected ??? Nobody caught this.It passed frame,insulation and was drywalled and finished until electrical final was called.The inspector wanted it stripped to the studs.called the chief,he allowed an engineering letter $800.00 fee and they megga`d the entire house and issued a clearance letter,also had to arch fault the entire house.I contend this is billable.The C.M. should have caught it before calling for frame,the county dropped the ball twice.since there can`t be a frame without all other trades signed off ditto for insulation insp.The C.M. blamed us :roll:

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Went for a final uh-oh no rough in inspection

In my opinion, the AHJ is going a little overboard. I feel there you have established a precedent with the two other rough inspections. It can reasonably be determined that the same methods and procedures were used on the third house as were on the the first two.

Alot can still be determined at the final even ith the walls closed. Box fill, conductor sizes, wall space, proper location of circuits, proper terminations, etc.. The only real issue that cannot be determined is securing and supporting, which also in my opinion is not exactly a concern for hazard.

What exactly does an inspector see or check during rough that will prevent arc-faults? Nothing. So what good is whole house afci? I also don't see the value of an engineers letter except for the fact it passes the liabilty.

I read a statistic recently that stated that only one-third of the communities in the US get electrical inspections. I don't believe two-thirds of all occupancies and buildings burn down each year from lack of inspections. I think if you guaranty your work and ensure no unintentinal shorts or grounds, the AHJ should pass the installation at final for rough as well.

 

[jeff43222]

Re: Went for a final uh-oh no rough in inspection

Where I live, the law is quite clear on this point. It says that whoever covers up the electrical work before it is inspected is responsible for paying all costs associated with opening it and closing it back up.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Went for a final uh-oh no rough in inspection

Allen,your right in that here we can not get framing till trades are passed.So county gets first egg.Insulators should check first on permit,they get 2nd egg.I can understand drywall men going ahead because insulation passed.GC is typical in taking no blame for anything.
Seems the only fair thing to do would be to pull out all devices (not remove).Like was mentioned they can still do spacing.Maybe prove what is on each circuit.Maybe an extra long inspection at some cost.I think in court the county would loose.Why not offer to exstend warranty for a few extra years.The big question was did it get called in for inspection ? any chance someone goofed on permit number ? Lets face it ,we call for inspection and if it fails the GC is usually on phone in 15 minutes.
Ask them this ,if this was a rewire with wires fished in wall just what would they see on inspection ? and this is a one inspection in most cases.The county should either pay or just shut up and pass it.Channel 8 is on your side,call them.

 

[hbiss]

Re: Went for a final uh-oh no rough in inspection

With all the houses you do what is the number of red tags you received during rough inspections? Your record should count for something. Besides, you knew your work was going to be inspected and it's not like you were going to try to get away with something on this one particular job. An inspector can't see, or doesn't have the time to look at everything. There has to be a certain amount of trust in the EC that he will do things right and there is no reason to believe otherwise here.

This sounds like a simple screw up that snowballed and a bunch of bureaucrats trying to justify their existance by throwing their weight around. No reason for what they required.

Unless it was directly your fault that the inspection didn't take place I would say yes, certainly those extras are billable.

-Hal

 

[msd]

Re: Went for a final uh-oh no rough in inspection

Are you a Registered or a Ceritfied Electrical Contractor for the State of Florida. If you are Certified (read State wide licensee)I would be more likely to let it pass. If you are Registered (read County Licensee) I would make you pull drywall. Especially if I noticed that you employed minimum standards on the first two houses that were inspected.

As to who pays. That is a total no brainer. The General Contractor is at fault. His job on the project is to oversee things. That is what the owner pays him for. It was his oversight, it's his problem.

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: Went for a final uh-oh no rough in inspection

Thanks for the replies.Yes Jim it was in the online OPAL system as scheduled.This whole issue came to light since when the final was called the rough was open still, so the computer would not let a final be scheduled.Yes we have our share of red tags during the course of a year but thay are minimal compared to the amount of inspections we call daily.As far as the EC liscense goes it is state issued.This happened in an area I oversee
On a daily basis we get about 6 to 15 inspections a day.We can`t use AHJ names here but Jim knows who waddles like a duck here.I walked that rough as I do all of them and it was totally code compliant.The CM went bonkers when he heard no rough in insp.I stayed calm let him rant and rave then asked him why did he call for the frame insp. without knowing if all trades were signed off first !!!!Thank g_d the system still had it listed as scheduled.IMHO GC pays all fees that are being required,and pays for all the arch faults (ouch)$$$$$ Guess there goes his bonus on this one.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Went for a final uh-oh no rough in inspection

Originally posted by msd:
Are you a Registered or a Ceritfied Electrical Contractor for the State of Florida. If you are Certified (read State wide licensee)I would be more likely to let it pass. If you are Registered (read County Licensee) I would make you pull drywall. Especially if I noticed that you employed minimum standards on the first two houses that were inspected.

This is the most BS statement I have ever read on this forum. There is absolutely no difference in the qualifications of a person who holds an EC or an ER in the state of Florida. Its a choice.

I hold an ER license here in Florida, are you saying that I am less qualified and will be prone to do less quality work becasue of that? Statisticaly speaking, EC's in the state of Florida have a higher percentage of disciplinary actions taken against them and the most common violation is committing fraud, deceit, negligence, incompetence or misconduct in the practice of electrical contracting.

As a matter of fact, most EC license holders I know have hardly any involvment with daily operations and are insulated from liability through corporate loop-holes. Most all ER's I know actually run the company and have a personal stake in the operations. I'll put my work and skills up against any EC in the state, and I know several other ER's that could do the same.

 

[megawire]

Re: Went for a final uh-oh no rough in inspection

I can't believe they put you through this. What's the deal with the AFCI on every circuit. Are they implying that if the rock is not up the inspector has been trained to see insulation defects within the armor or sheathing? This is a classic case of taking authority to far. Where I am, reputaton speaks for itself, I could understand if you guys were snagged for cutting corners in the past, but I seriously doubt that is the case.

I'm glad we are only subject to finals. Can you self certify your work in situations like this one?

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Went for a final uh-oh no rough in inspection

Allen if it was in county computer and blocked FINAL ,then just what is there defence on not doing it? or did it maybe get red tag and tag got lost ?
Any way i try to look at this it was the county that goofed first and they should pay for what they demanded.
As to license type that is pure bull $#!@.
Very few masters look at every job his/her men dnly very small companies could do this.A master is just the permit puller and go to jail person.In some cases employees are hired by other than owner.Code compliant jobs are what inspectors get paid for.And yes down here they are over booked.Won't use name but on a wall inspection friday a week ago i was #1 on his list at about 8 AM and he told me he had 29 to go.They simply can't inspect every thing.

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: Went for a final uh-oh no rough in inspection

As explained to me the afci issue is to ensure that there are not pinched/pressure shorted wires,as far as I am concerned when the engineering firm did their thing that should not be an issue IMHO.The inspectors in this area as Jim knows are under paid and over worked,sometimes they have to roll inspections 2 sometimes 3 days.In the area`s I oversee they build a 3,000 sq. ft. home in 90 days max.So to roll a final well is a problem.We usually trim and final a home a week before it closes.No window for problems like this one.It`s only going to get worse,there are another 4 sub divisions opening in a 20 mile radius right now with allot more planned.Something has to break soon!!!!
Well thanks for the posts and if nothing else at least I know I am not alone in my thinking