Voltage on Washing Machine frame; I am baffled.

[ptonsparky]

What are the receptacle devices? Two wire?

 

[romex jockey]

I moved #10 breaker to #12 space to see if the condition existed on both legs of the transformer, and it did.

Do they share a noodle Brant?

~RJ~

 

[brantmacga]

What are the receptacle devices? Two wire?

3-wire receps everywhere


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[brantmacga]

Do they share a noodle Brant?

~RJ~

No.


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[brantmacga]

Did you try unplugging the dryer and checking the voltage? I may have missed something about where all you were checking for voltage to frame or neutral. I say there is a neutral problem somewhere.

Turned off every circuit breaker except #10; problem still existed


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[romex jockey]

Turned off every circuit breaker except #10; problem still existed


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well, seems you're dealing with a 'return path' ...jmho Brant

~RJ~

 

[oldsparky52]

Well running an equipotential bonding conductor between the machines and water piping should mitigate the symptoms of the problem, but the problem would still exist.

It almost has to be the neutral conductor between the panel and light box, ... right?

 

[romex jockey]

Well running an equipotential bonding conductor between the machines and water piping should mitigate the symptoms of the problem, but the problem would still exist.

It almost has to be the neutral conductor between the panel and light box, ... right?

h*ll, it could be a bum noodle next door , and municipal H2O Old one..... ~RJ~

 

[ramsy]

The eyebrow raising thing for me is that it only happens on circuit #10

If that home-run bypass used same breaker, whats best way to check breaker(s) for high resistance?

 

[ramsy]

Perhaps open Main disconnect, then check continuity/resistance across closed breaker, wire terminal to bus?

 

[LarryFine]

If that home-run bypass used same breaker, whats best way to check breaker(s) for high resistance?

Looking for voltage between points that should be at the same potential.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The eyebrow raising thing for me is that it only happens on circuit #10

Yes but is the washer plugged in when testing? Unplug the washer and see what you get

 

[wwhitney]

It seems to me that step 10 isolates the problem to the wiring between the ceiling box and the washer and freezer receptacles. That could be fully confirmed by plugging the washer into a temporary new box, new receptacle, and new wiring (but no EGC) hooked up to breaker #10, and checking for voltage. I also wonder if the freezer case has any voltage to the dryer case when the freezer is plugged into either receptacle (assuming a 3 prong freezer plug).

Here's a theory that I believe is consistent with all the data, although it's just a guess: both receptacles on circuit #10 are of the same workmanship, and they both have a high resistance fault from hot to metal receptacle box, e.g. maybe by a cable clamp that is too tight. Then the receptacles are self-grounding, and the washer cord is 3 prongs. So now the washer case has a high resistance connection to hot. If the dryer cord is 3 wire (non-grounding), then the dryer case is bonded to neutral. That gives you washer case to dryer case voltage, but only when using one of those two receptacles on circuit #10.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[synchro]

I used an extension cord to plug the washer into various other receptacles, and it only happens while plugged into the conductors of Circuit #10.

I suggest measuring the resistance between the neutral and ground terminals on the receptacles of circuit #10, and also on those "other receptacles" that you mentioned above. If what I suggested in post 17 above is happening, then the #10 circuit receptacles would show an open circuit but the other ones would show continuity between the neutral and ground terminals (presumably due to a bootleg ground).

Does circuit #10 currently have a GFCI breaker or receptacle for the washer?

 

[petersonra]

This certainly seems like some kind of neutral issue. It is hard to know where it's coming from. The fact that you have arcing marks on the old dryer suggests it's been there a while and it's probably not from the new washing machine and thus is likely something in the house wiring. Your cheapest solution might be to just rewire everything rather than try and find it. You've already spent a ton of money looking for something that's inherently difficult to find.

I think somebody else mentioned it might be on the utility side which is certainly possible.

 

[wwhitney]

But as I understand it, the new washer has a 3 prong plug going into a 3 prong receptacle in a metal box supplied by an ungrounded circuit. So the washer case should be bonded to the receptacle EGC and the metal box, but all of those should be floating relative to anything else. For there to be a voltage, one of those components of that "island" must be connected to a voltage source. Which means one of the circuit conductors is connected to that "island" somewhere.

It could be a bootleg ground on the receptacle (I hadn't considered that in my previous post), or a hot-island or neutral-island fault somewhere.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[LarryFine]

I'm still thinking what I suggested in post #2. Create an equipotential bond.

 

[petersonra]

I'm still thinking what I suggested in post #2. Create an equipotential bond.

Does not fix the problem. Just hides it

 

[romex jockey]

Does not fix the problem. Just hides it

~RJ~

 

[romex jockey]

So old ungrounded 12-2 w/ 3 wire receptacles Brant?

~RJ~