Two buildings One service

[sandsnow]

This may be long to describe, but I ask for your patience. I hope I don't confuse anyone.
An apartment complex has two pool buildings next to a large pool.
Building A houses bathrooms. Building B has pool equipment. Original design had the 200 amp service with 200amp panel next to it in a bathroom. Then 100 amp feeder to Building B for a panel. Ok so far per code req'mnts.
The PoCo came along and did not accept the service in the bathroom (actually the meter). Service was moved to Building B. Then the 200amp feeder goes back to Bldg A to the panel that is still in the bathroom. From there the 100amp feeder goes to Bldg B to pick up the panel.
Then they called for inspection.
Does anyone see a problem with this "looping" between the buildings? Under 225-30(1999) we only have one feeder in Building B. Under 230-2 we only have one service. I don't see where the Code limits a building to only one source of electricity, either one service or one feeder. If there is no code reference I'll ask for conspicuous labeling at the service and each panel.
I won't be able to access the BB until AM
Thanks

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Two buildings One service

I feel if you are not violating 230.3 and you identify properly per 225.37, then there shouldn't be any code issues. Take note of 250.32 requirements as well.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Two buildings One service

maybe i missed something but if the AHJ approved this and it sounds ok just what right does PO CO have in this.While it sounds stupid as H i see no violation other than not using common since on PO CO side

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Two buildings One service

Jim, you know the POCO in many cases indicate the location of the metering equipment. I know FPL or Tampa Co-Op would both not set a meter at an indoor location or in any other location not to their preference.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Two buildings One service

no they would never go for meter inside ,i might have mis read but i didn't gather the meter was inside on either install
I do see one problem that AHJ shoulda caught and that is paneles can not be in a bathroom or is that just for residential ?

[ June 16, 2004, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]

 

[sandsnow]

Re: Two buildings One service

I'm the inspector for the project. The service and panel originaly designed to be in a commercial bathroom (pool bldg) so that was ok.
240-24(e)(1999). The relocation was done without consulting us or we would have encouraged a more common sense arrangement.
Thanks for the feedback

 

[steve66]

Re: Two buildings One service

We designed a commercial building and planned on putting the meters inside the building. POCO said no way. We even offered a door straight from the exterior to the meters, ect. They still wouldn't allow it. So we designed the meters being placed outside. The architect designed a 20' x 7' block screen wall for meters and service equipment. The wall was constructed, a NEMA 3R switchboard was installed and about 12 - 4" conduits were ran.

Then the owner of the building said no way that wall and electrical equipment was staying out in sight. So the design changed to a single meter with the landlord footing the entire electric bill. (And the bill to tear down a new wall and all). The switchgear was moved inside, conduits were reworked, and I did a design with the meter on the outside of the building.

Then the power company decided they wanted the meter inside the building. That's where it went. I think they just didn't want multple meters.

Steve

 

[sandsnow]

Re: Two buildings One service

That shows the difference between PoCo's We have almost all metering inside, single or multi even 5kv and 12kv.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Two buildings One service

Originally posted by sandsnow:
...We have almost all metering inside...

How does the meter reader get access to the equipment when it is located inside?

 

[roger]

Re: Two buildings One service

Bryan, I don't know if it's still there, but there was a small mall in Nocomis (and or) Venice on "U.S. 41" (Tamiami Trail) called "Market Place Mall" which is / was an example of indoor metering.

Roger

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Two buildings One service

Thanks Roger,

I'll have to take a drive over and check it out!

 

[david]

Re: Two buildings One service

__________________________________________________
I'm the inspector for the project. The service and panel originaly designed to be in a commercial bathroom (pool bldg) so that was ok.
__________________________________________________

VI. Service Equipment ? Disconnecting Means
230.70 General.
(A) Location.
(2) Bathrooms. Service disconnecting means shall not be installed in bathrooms.

 

[steve66]

Re: Two buildings One service

Posted by Bryan:

How does the meter reader get access to the equipment when it is located inside?

You give them a key. I have to admit this is one good reason why they don't want meters inside. They don't want to be responsible for and keep track of a bunch of customers keys.

Another common method is to put a small lock box on the outside of the building with a key in it. Then the power company can key all the lock boxes alike with their own key.

If they can't read the meter for some reason, they just estimate. When I was in an apartment, they somehow lost the key that was in the lock box. They estimated our meters for at least 6 months. I'm sure the tenants that lived month-month got a shock when the POCO finallly got in to read the meters.

Steve

 

[iwire]

Re: Two buildings One service

Around here many if not most apartment and commercial buildings have the meters inside.

Single to six family's and small (400 amps or less) commercial are usually outside metering.

There are always exceptions to that though, very old house services are inside meters.

As Steve said a lot of estimated billing is done.

 

[sandsnow]

Re: Two buildings One service

Originally posted by david:
__________________________________________________
________________________________________________

VI. Service Equipment — Disconnecting Means
230.70 General.
(A) Location.
(2) Bathrooms. Service disconnecting means shall not be installed in bathrooms.

David
Thanks for pointing out that I had the original installation incorrect. I overlooked that requirement. It's always embarrassing when this happens. It's a lesson for me ALWAYS LOOK UP ALL FACETS OF THE INSTALLATION.
Thanks