Troubleshooting a residential well.

[mspicka]

I went out to look at a well. And spent some time with the homeowner who knew nothing about his own well and believed an electrician was the answer to his problems.

I started at the panel and he had 240v out of the panel. It runs down to a pressure switch. Which I did not test because I did not know what it was. I never mess with things when I don't know what they are. I checked some voltages on a pump protection system and I could get 120 to ground but nothing between phases. Possibly a sign of a bad preasure switch? I don't know yet.

My real question is what is the roll of the electrical and what it the roll of the well company? Is this somthing an electrician should be able to work on or is it something I should work on if the well company is present?

I had a simular experience with a gate company and homeowner. We are willing to run wires but we do not hook up the wire for the controls.

 

[petersonra]

Your occupation is listed as owner. This effectively makes you a do-it-yourselfer and we are prohibited from helping do it yourselfers. I suggest you hire a competent electrician or well person to troubleshoot your problem.

 

[mspicka]

Your occupation is listed as owner. This effectively makes you a do-it-yourselfer and we are prohibited from helping do it yourselfers. I suggest you hire a competent electrician or well person to troubleshoot your problem.

Sorry, no that is incorrect. My status is apprentice electrican. I'll have to figure out how to change that.

 

[mspicka]

Sorry, no that is incorrect. My status is apprentice electrican. I'll have to figure out how to change that.

Fixed.

 

[petersonra]

It does not really change the advice any. If you don't have the ability to troubleshoot and repair it yourself then you need to hire someone who can.

If The journeyman that is supervising you feels comfortable about doing so, he could have you look at it under his supervision. Personally I'd be inclined to bring in the well guy. They have probably seen everything and they have all the parts in the truck to fix just about anything.

But it could also be a learning experience for you. Just me but I would rather not pay to have somebody to learn on my time I'd rather hire someone that's going to come out and fix it.

 

[mspicka]

It does not really change the advice any. If you don't have the ability to troubleshoot and repair it yourself then you need to hire someone who can.

If The journeyman that is supervising you feels comfortable about doing so, he could have you look at it under his supervision. Personally I'd be inclined to bring in the well guy. They have probably seen everything and they have all the parts in the truck to fix just about anything.

But it could also be a learning experience for you. Just me but I would rather not pay to have somebody to learn on my time I'd rather hire someone that's going to come out and fix it.

Yes. I think I agree with you. He called the wrong trade, this is a well trade call.

 

[tom baker]

Residential wells typically have a control box, with a start capacitor, and 3 wire with ground down the column to the pump. The pressure switch would be at the air tank, so on at 40 and off at 60 psi or so.
There are you tube videos on how it works. Your issue will be where to source parts. The well guys can quickly fix. And it could be a bad pump or motor.

 

[mspicka]

Residential wells typically have a control box, with a start capacitor, and 3 wire with ground down the column to the pump. The pressure switch would be at the air tank, so on at 40 and off at 60

The only parts were a preasure switch followed by a pump protection unit.

 

[roger]

The only parts were a preasure switch followed by a pump protection unit.

You stated you did not measure voltage at the switch because you didn't know what it was, after the panel that is the next place you need to check. Considering the way you asked the question this is something you need to leave for a more experienced person.

 

[Dzboyce]

You need to be able to take both voltage and amperage readings at various places in the electrical system. You may also need to do a megger test on the submersible pump wires. I use a megger as much as I use a multimeter.

You also stated that there is a pump protection unit. It may have shut the pump off for a pre-set amount of time or it may need to be manually reset. You need to know how to diagnose that also.

If you do not know how to do all this, or you're not comfortable doing it, then you need to bring in someone that specializes in pumps.

In my state, pump installers have to have both an electricians and a plumbers license.

 

[mspicka]

You need to be able to take both voltage and amperage readings at various places in the electrical system. You may also need to do a megger test on the submersible pump wires. I use a megger as much as I use a multimeter.

You also stated that there is a pump protection unit. It may have shut the pump off for a pre-set amount of time or it may need to be manually reset. You need to know how to diagnose that also.

If you do not know how to do all this, or you're not comfortable doing it, then you need to bring in someone that specializes in pumps.

In my state, pump installers have to have both an electricians and a plumbers license.

I appriciate the reply, I pushed him toward calling the well company. I was at least able to help him figure out what to tell the them, he did not have a clue about how they worked. He spoke to the well company late this afternoon and they believe it is the preasure switch.

 

[Fred B]

Getting a lot of city transplants that haven't a clue how they are getting their water up here. They have a vague idea about there is a pump that requires electric to operate. Getting calls from homeowners where the pressure switch also has a low pressure cutoff that keeps the pump from running the well dry if there is an broken pipe or prevent pump ftom burning itself out if loss of prime occurs due to low water level. They are not aware of the override that must be done until you reach the minimum hold pressure. Happens alot after a power outage.

 

[ptonsparky]

The Well Guys usually have all they need on the truck and would normally be the first call.
You do need to learn how the system works and how to troubleshoot because the experience will extend into other areas of your field.

 

[kwired]

As mentioned this is pretty basic if you do motors and controls and you probably should try to learn how this works.

In basic setup as you appear to have, the first component in the circuit is the pressure switch, it is a 2 pole switch actuated by a diaphragm that responds to pressure in the water system. When pressure drops below the low setting both poles of the switch close and send power on to allow the pump to run. When it reaches the high setting it opens both poles and stops the pump. The fact you had 120 to ground but not 240 between anything to me suggests that likely one pole of the switch was closing but not the other, and is a pretty common failure on these well systems. Is common enough that it at least would be first thing I would check at that point.

After the pressure switch, some wells are simple two wire and you run conductors straight to the pump after the switch, others are three wire and have a control box as the next component after the pressure switch. This control box typically has a potential relay and a start capacitor in it. The capacitor is remote from the motor as it is also somewhat common failure item and if placed inside the motor you would have to pull the pump to replace it, instead they use the potential relay to determine when to switch the capacitor and put it all above ground for easier access.

Most 1.5 hp and less have motor overload internal to the motor, over 1.5 hp they often have motor overload as well as a run capacitor in the control box with the potential relay and start capacitor.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The control boxes are usually the problem as it is the capacitors that get blown. The well company generally carry that equipment with them in their vans. Easy to change but around here if there is power at the pressure switch then it is the well companies problem. On my own home I would deal with it.

The pressure switch has a small piece of pipe that comes out of the bottom and connects to the plumbing. The piping is how the pressure switch can know whether to come on or turn the pump off. That small tube gets filled with gunk from the well and affects the pump. Sometimes the gauge gets stuck. As you can see there are many things to check.

On my house I finally replaced the galvanized nipple on the pressure switch with a brass nipple. The brass nipple will not get build up inside the way a galvanized pipe will.

 

[Dzboyce]

And 90% of the time a bad capacitor in the control box is because the pump has been short cycling because of a pressure tank problem. The bad capacitor is a symptom, not the actual problem.

 

[ActionDave]

And 90% of the time a bad capacitor in the control box is because the pump has been short cycling because of a pressure tank problem. The bad capacitor is a symptom, not the actual problem.

Yup. At least once a month we would get someone in my old employer's shop with a cap from a well pump in hand, I would tell them this will get you through the night but get someone out there to fix the bigger problem you most likely have.

 

[Jpflex]

I went out to look at a well. And spent some time with the homeowner who knew nothing about his own well and believed an electrician was the answer to his problems.

I started at the panel and he had 240v out of the panel. It runs down to a pressure switch. Which I did not test because I did not know what it was. I never mess with things when I don't know what they are. I checked some voltages on a pump protection system and I could get 120 to ground but nothing between phases. Possibly a sign of a bad preasure switch? I don't know yet.

My real question is what is the roll of the electrical and what it the roll of the well company? Is this somthing an electrician should be able to work on or is it something I should work on if the well company is present?

I had a simular experience with a gate company and homeowner. We are willing to run wires but we do not hook up the wire for the controls.

No voltage “phase to phase” on component could be lines that are supposed to be opposing phases are same phase showing no voltage because of same potential. Phase to ground still will = 120v

 

[Jraef]

No voltage “phase to phase” on component could be lines that are supposed to be opposing phases are same phase showing no voltage because of same potential. Phase to ground still will = 120v

My bet is that someone was looking for space in the breaker panel and replaced a 2 pole breaker with a twin, not understanding the difference. Happens a lot with DIYers and handymen.

 

[guschash]

You should be able to troubleshoot this. If you can't ,you need to get into a apprentice that will teach you.