TIA to 680.26(C)???

[ryan_618]

I just recieved an E-mail regarding the 2005 version of 680.26(C). I have called the authors of this to verify that what they got is a "formal interpretation" or just a chat with someone t=from NFPA. I left a message, and will post to this thread when I hear back. Anyway, here is the message I got:

Date: April 6, 2005
To: Our Valued Customers
Re: 2005 National Electric Code (NEC)

In February 2005, Latham International discovered the NEC Handbook interpretation of article 680.26(C) of the 2005 NEC requires the installation of an ?equipotential bonding grid? under the deck and bottom contour of vinyl lined polymer wall pools. Latham and a growing number of customers quickly became concerned with the added cost of installing a bonding grid with each pool.

After reviewing the code itself, we believe the wording to be ambiguous and the bonding grid is required only under the deck, not the entire pool bottom contour. There is no sound technical rationale for having a bonding grid under a non-conductive pool bottom. However, a wet pool deck (concrete, stone, or pavers) will act as a conductor and should be bonded to the grounding system.

At the February 22nd APSP Technical Committee meeting, Latham and the APSP challenged the requirement with a request for a Formal Interpretation to the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA). The NFPA is the author of the NEC.

On March 18th, the NFPA reviewed our request. The discussion was in our favor and the code wording does not represent the intent of the revisions for 2005. The intent was to require a bonding grid only under the deck (for vinyl lined polymer wall pools). Given that the published change has resulted in an adverse impact and was inadvertently overlooked, the situation qualifies for a Tentative Interim Amendment (TIA). A TIA is a revision to the code allowed in emergency situations.

Unfortunately, the TIA process takes several months and the projected effective date is August 15th. Since the situation is urgent and our customers cannot wait until August, we are seeking immediate alternatives.

Similar to ANSI standards, adopting the revision is discretionary. Some municipalities have the option of postponing the effective date of article 680.26(C). In fact, Columbus Ohio recently set a precedent by becoming the first municipality to delay adopting 680.26(C) until after the TIA process or September 1st.

The APSP has also contacted the International Association of Electrical Inspectors (IAEI) to discuss alternatives. Latham will continue to work with the APSP, NFPA, and IAEI until an amicable solution is obtained. If you have questions, please contact either Peter Moran or Don Nicoll at (800)833-3800. Thank you.

 

[rbalex]

Re: TIA to 680.26(C)???

Unfortunately, the TIA process takes several months ...

The Formal Interpretation process does too. If the discussion was held March 18th, the best they received was support from a CMP member, which is a fundamental requirement to initiate a TIA. NFPA Staff can recommend it but can't make this determination alone.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: TIA to 680.26(C)???

I talked with Keith Loffland of IAEI and Mark Ode (alternate) of the TCC. I've got to run right now, but I will post what they told me during my lunch hour.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: TIA to 680.26(C)???

From what I am being told by the proponent, they requested a formal interpretation from the CMP. They had a conference call with all of the members of the panel, and are in the process of getting the interpretation. They are also filing for a TIA. Accoding the rules of the NFPA, there must be an emergancy situation to warrant a TIA, so this may or may not happen. Talking with Mark from the TCC, they are all aware that there is a petition for TIA, and they will act on it so that if it is considererd emergancy, it can by in the NEC as early as fall of this year.

In addition to what I quoted above, the proponent is trying to clarify what can be used to create the equipotential plane in the deck, whether it must be rebar, or if it can be lath, chicken wire, whatever.

 

[bob014]

Re: TIA to 680.26(C)???

Hi Ryan, Guys. It's pool season in Ohio where I'm Chief Building Official for a city of 26000. In this area the interpretation most are taking is that the equopotential bonding grid is required for above groung pools also if the hold over 42 inches of water. This will add $2,000 t0 $4,000 to a $1,000 pool cost.
My personal interpretation is that if there is a concrete pad or surface beside the pool then the rebar has to be bonded such as with a concrete pool.
I cannot see the benifit of an equopotential grid for an above ground pool with a deck around it or no concrete within 3 feet of it.
I'm considereing amending the NEC by ordinance (for 1,2,3 family residential)to spell out that above ground pools are exempt from the grid.
Any comments please. I do not want to expose any above ground pool owners to a liability.
Bob Jackson
Chief Building Official
Electrical Inspector #927
OCILB Continuing Education Provider #014

 

[pierre]

Re: TIA to 680.26(C)???

Last summer and fall, we received a number of calls from pool owners that they were getting shocked climbing out of their pools, or when sitting on the edge of the pool.
Without getting into the long details, I can only assume that this is not a local affair to the area I work in.
I can see this new requirement as being hard to interpret properly, and even harder to enforce due to the lack of knowledge most pool installers in our area already do not possess of code compliant installations.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: TIA to 680.26(C)???

Update: I have been told that the request for TIA has been withdrawn.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: TIA to 680.26(C)???

Update: I have been told wrong

From the NFPA news:

NFPA 70?2005
National Electrical Code?
TIA Log No. 821
Reference: 680.26
Comment Closing Date: June 15, 2005
Submitter: CMP-17, Task Group on 680.26
1. Revise 680.26 (C) & 680.26 (C)(1) as follows:
(C) Equipotential Bonding Grid. The parts specified in 680.26(B)
shall be connected to an equipotential bonding grid with a solid
copper conductor, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than
8 AWG or rigid metal conduit of brass or other identified corrosion-
resistant metal conduit. Connection shall be made by exothermic
welding or by listed pressure connectors or clamps that
are labeled as being suitable for the purpose and are of stainless
steel, brass, copper, or copper alloy. The equipotential bonding
grid shall conform to the contours of the pool and shall extend
within or under paved walking surfaces for 1 m (3 ft) horizontally
beyond the inside walls of the pool and shall be permitted to be
any of the following:
Exception: The equipotential bonding grid shall not be required
to be installed under the bottom of or vertically along the walls
of vinyl lined polymer wall, fiberglass composite, or other pools
constructed of nonconductive materials. Any metal parts of the
pool, including metal structural supports, shall be bonded in
accordance with 680.26(B). For the purposes of this section,
poured concrete, pneumatically applied (sprayed) concrete, and
concrete block, with painted or plastered coatings, shall be considered
conductive material.
(1) Structural Reinforcing Steel. The structural reinforcing steel
of a concrete pool or deck where the reinforcing rods are bonded
together by the usual steel tie wires or the equivalent. Where deck
reinforcing steel is not an integral part of the pool, the deck reinforcing
steel shall be bonded to other parts of the bonding grid
using a minimum 8 AWG solid copper conductor. Connection
shall be per 680.26(D).
Submitter?s Reason: In accordance with Section 5-2(f) of the
NFPA Regulations Governing Committee Projects, the Task
Group on behalf of CMP-17 is requesting a Tentative Interim
Amendment to address two unintended consequences of the revisions
to 680.26 published in the 2005 National Electrical Code.
The first unintended consequence that occurred in 680.26 is that
certain requirements for providing an equipotential bonding grid
around swimming pools are being interpreted in ways not anticipated
or intended by the CMP. This has resulted in an adverse
impact on certain swimming pool designs and new, unnecessary
construction features being mandated at considerable expense.
Specifically, 680.26 (C) and 680.26 (C) (1) are being interpreted
to require the builder to construct an equipotential bonding grid
under or along the side of a nonconductive, vinyl-lined polymer
walled or fiberglass composite pool. This extensive bonding grid
is not necessary for pools that are constructed with nonconductive
vinyl liners or fiberglass composite shells. The proposed revi-
sion permits the conductive structural elements that are
installed within or under the concrete pool deck or other
type of paved deck surface to serve as the equipotential
bonding grid. The second unintended consequence that
occurred in the 2005 revision to 680.26 is the interpretation
that the 1 m (3 ft.) horizontal extension of the bonding
grid is required to be installed as a continuous, unbroken
extension of the structural reinforcing steel or metal wall
of a pool. CMP-17 only intended that the bonding grid
extend up to 3 ft. horizontally within or under a concrete
pool deck or other paved walking surface and not that this
portion of the equipotential bonding grid be an unbroken
extension of the pool wall rebar or metal pool wall. It
was also not intended that the deck reinforcing steel be
required to be a continuous structure of the pool shell. It
could be a separate structure bonded to the swimming pool
in accordance with present requirements in the Code. Continuous
extensions of reinforcing steel into the deck will
result in damage to the structure of the pool and deck due
to differences in movement between the two structures.
We appreciate the Standards Council?s consideration of
our request for this Tentative Interim Amendment.

 

[pierre]

Re: TIA to 680.26(C)???

From the Code Watch:

CODE NEWS UPDATES
NFPA Requests Comments on 2005 NEC TIA
It's the start of swimming season, and the NFPA is celebrating by requesting comments on a tentative interim amendment to NEC requirements for pool bonding systems. Thanks to a misinterpreted change to 680.26(B), some Code-conscious pool designers have been under the impression they had to build equipotential bonding grids under and around vinyl-lined and fiberglass composite pools. The proposed amendment would add an exception to clear up the confusion. It would also clarify bonding requirements for concrete pool decks or other walking surfaces adjacent to the pool. The deadline for comments is June 15. For the full amendment, visit www.nfpa.org/itemDetail.asp?categoryID=136&itemID=19181 and click on the May 2005 issue.

For those who are not too happy with this new section, here is your chance to do something about it. Write in and be heard!!!!!

 

[shortcircuit2]

Re: TIA to 680.26(C)???

Where and how do we direct comments on this TIA?

shortcircuit2

 

[rbalex]

Re: TIA to 680.26(C)???

Submit your comments to:

Secretary, Standards Council
NFPA
1 Batterymarch Park
Quincy MA, 02269-9101

You can submit it in the same format as a regular Comment. Note the TIA Log No. 821 as the "NFPA Document."

Edit Add: There is also a FAX No where Comments are accepted: (617) 770-3500

[ May 10, 2005, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: rbalex ]