Three quickies...

[ctroyp]

This applies to a single family dwelling:

1)If an electrician (someone elses job) installs a 20A 120V circuit to a kitchen disposal (reguardless of the reason,) should he install a 15A or 20A switch above the sink?

2)Installing a 100A 1PH 120/240V panel in detached garage fed from the main 200A panel located in the basement of the house. Is a means of disconnect with or w/o OC protection required in the garage for that panel or will the 100A breaker in the house's panel be suffice?

3)Thoughts on feeding outside receptacles...
Feed from the garage GFI's if distance is not too far to be cost ineffective, feed from adjacent (closest) receptacles inside the house and install GFI's outside, or run a seperate circuit for all receptacles w/one passive GFI at the front end? Do they need to be 20A? For simplification, lets consider we're dealing with 3 to 4 outside receptacles.

Thanks to all that respond...

 

[hbiss]

Re: Three quickies...

1) Switch need only be sized for the actual load.
2) Disconnect is required in the garage. A main breaker panel wired as a subpanel is the easiest way.
3) Whatever. They can be 15 or 20 amp.

 

[wolfman56]

Re: Three quickies...

HBISS

2) Disconnect is required in the garage. A main breaker panel wired as a subpanel is the easiest way.

Why? I thought, a main lug panel, and 100amp breaker in the 200 amp panel should be ok.

 

[elmarea]

Re: Three quickies...

I also use a main lug panel with overcurrent at main panel. I've never had any problems.

 

[russ]

Re: Three quickies...

225.33
How many breakers/circuits are in the panel?

 

[ctroyp]

Re: Three quickies...

Originally posted by russ:
225.33
How many breakers/circuits are in the panel?

Russ:
Haven't determined that quite yet, but probably looking at 2-3 20A cir.(intermittent loads), 1 15A cir.(general lighting), and a 240V welder plug (unsure of amperage at this time.)

HBISS:
You answered

1) Switch need only be sized for the actual load.

Do you have a code reference for this? I don't have my CB handy right not, but I am aware of the general code that the OCPD determines the rating of the circuit. I think it's at the beginning of CH 210 or so. Permissable or not, my point to this guy is that he shouldn't install a 15A switch in the above application. It's not the same as installing a 15A receptacle on a 20A dining room circuit. For conversation sake, lets assume the disposal has a 16A FLC. Why would you even consider installing a 15A passive device in that line of current.

The local inspectors are apparently passing these types of installations though. With that fact in mind, I never can be too positive on my interpretations of the NEC so that is why I wanted to post this question.

 

[hurk27]

Re: Three quickies...

AS far as the main breaker goes if you are only going to have 6 or less breakers in the garage panel then yes the 100 amp breaker in the house panel will be enough but if you go over this then there must be a main disconect or a main breaker in the garage panel to follow the disconect in six movments of the hand rule. as for the switch goes there is no requirment to provide a switch rated more than the connected load but yes a 20 amp switch would last longer. but this would depend on how extra's you are willing to afford your customer.

Just a note since most grage panel will get added to at a later date and the fact that most of the time you can get main breaker panel cheaper than main lug ones I would use a main breaker panel. but this is only my thought not a NEC requirment.

 

[iwire]

Re: Three quickies...

Ctroyp, about the 15 amp switch, you first said

If an electrician (someone elses job) installs a 20A 120V circuit to a kitchen disposal (reguardless of the reason,) should he install a 15A or 20A switch above the sink?

With only that info all we could say is yes you may use a 15 amp switch on a 20 amp circuit.

Now you added this

For conversation sake, lets assume the disposal has a 16A FLC.

This changes the question entirely, now with a FLC of 16 amps you may not use a 15 amp switch.

A 15 amp switch could code wise handle a motor with a full load current of 12 amps.

This would more or less mean a 15 amp switch could handle up to a 1/2 hp, move to 3/4 or 1 hp you will need a 20 amp switch.

404.14 Rating and Use of Snap Switches.
Snap switches shall be used within their ratings and as indicated in 404.14(A) through (D).

(A) Alternating Current General-Use Snap Switch. A form of general-use snap switch suitable only for use on ac circuits for controlling the following:

(3)Motor loads not exceeding 80 percent of the ampere rating of the switch at its rated voltage

The code article for no more than six disconnects in a separate building as mentioned already is 225.33

225.33 Maximum Number of Disconnects.

(A) General. The disconnecting means for each supply permitted by 225.30 shall consist of not more than six switches or six circuit breakers mounted in a single enclosure, in a group of separate enclosures, or in or on a switchboard. There shall be no more than six disconnects per supply grouped in any one location.

Exception: For the purposes of this section, disconnecting means used solely for the control circuit of the ground-fault protection system, or the control circuit of the power-operated supply disconnecting means, installed as part of the listed equipment, shall not be considered a supply disconnecting means.

(B) Single-Pole Units. Two or three single-pole switches or breakers capable of individual operation shall be permitted on multiwire circuits, one pole for each ungrounded conductor, as one multipole disconnect, provided they are equipped with handle ties or a master handle to disconnect all ungrounded conductors with no more than six operations of the hand.

The GFCIs as was said whatever you want, around here we used to come of the bathroom GFCI, do not do this, it is now a violation.

[ December 02, 2003, 03:24 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: Three quickies...

I may still be sleeping,but isn`t the key word DETACHED.OCPD is a given but isn`t a disconnect required ????
We have always used a 15 a spsw for lets say a disposal.
It is a matter of preference,but I found gfci`s outdoors are call backs waiting to happen.I`ll have my guys H.R. and additional GFCI device in the garage and feed from there

 

[ctroyp]

Re: Three quickies...

I guess I just have a problem installing an under rated device in series with a circuit, no matter what the load is. As Bob stated the 15 A switch is sized properly for a 12A load and under. I just think it is a bad practice to do this when you're talking about 10 cents difference in price.

 

[hbiss]

Re: Three quickies...

I may still be sleeping,but isn`t the key word DETACHED.OCPD is a given but isn`t a disconnect required ????

Right. Doesn't a detached garage with two or more circuits require a common disconnect? Don't have my code book with me and I can't remember the article.

 

[ctroyp]

Re: Three quickies...

Originally posted by a.wayne3@verizon.net:
We have always used a 15 a spsw for lets say a disposal.

On a 15A circuit or a 20A circuit?

 

[hurk27]

Re: Three quickies...

Hbiss
Look at 225.33 You are allowed up to 6 means of disconect before you need a common disconect and by useing two-pole switchs or breakers you can have even more circuits. but as rule of thumb I use a main breaker panel anyway,
one most of the time it cost less,
two it allows for future expansion.