Telephone premises wiring requires journeyman level elec

[gfernow]

I'm not believing this but I admit that I don't know... Can you tell me (if) and (where) the NEC requires electrical contractors to be licensed journeymen to install or maintain signaling or communications conductors in public or private buildings? I am a telephone company network technician (installation & repair) for Qwest in Boise, Idaho. A legislative bill is pending in my state to require the above, to " .. bring Idaho into compliance with the current National Electrical Code ... "
Thanks for your insight!

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Telephone premises wiring requires journeyman level elec

NEC doesn't require any license ,permits or inspectors.
Your state,county,town ,known as AHJ in NEC has that power and its a good idea for safety of others.Why would you have a problem with following NEC code ?

 

[dereckbc]

Re: Telephone premises wiring requires journeyman level elec

I agree with Jim, it is a local jurisdiction decision. I use to work for Southwestern Bell, and MCI. If the Telco you work with (Qwest bought out US West) is a regulated utility, with a monopoly, and in thier own facility, then they are exempt from pulling permits. But that is a fine line.

Now if you are installing in public and private buildings (other than Qwest), then local rules apply.

 

[hbiss]

Re: Telephone premises wiring requires journeyman level elec

NEC requires electrical contractors to be licensed journeymen to install or maintain signaling or communications conductors in public or private buildings? ...A legislative bill is pending in my state to require the above, to " .. bring Idaho into compliance with the current National Electrical Code ... "

Yeah, and I'll bet if you dig deep enough you will find it was sponsored by the IBEW too.

As was said, the NEC has nothing to to say about licensing or who does the work, only your state or local government can do this.

Some states and localities do require a low voltage license to do such work but never a electrical journeymen. Most require nothing, some require that you pull a permit and/or have your work inspected.

If you are concerned about this I would urge you and everyone else with a concern to contact your state representives and tell them you oppose this. Sounds like this was initiated quietly and without input except from those with an interest in stifiling competition. Unfortunately the competition is the "little guys" that are not organized and have little political clout because they can't contibute $$$ to the politicians.

-Hal

[ February 19, 2004, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: hbiss ]

 

[dereckbc]

Re: Telephone premises wiring requires journeyman level elec

Originally posted by jimwalker:
Why would you have a problem with following NEC code ?

If you have ever been in a telephone office, you might know one of the answers. If you ever looked at a DC power plant, and look at the DC power cables on the cable racks, you would notice there is no spacing between cables, cables are stacked to 6 inches high, and no de-rating for number of cables in raceway.

[ February 19, 2004, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: dereckbc ]

 

[gfernow]

Re: Telephone premises wiring requires journeyman level elec

Thanks. folks, I appreciate the replies. I'll check again tomorrow. For Jim: I'm glad the code is there because my safety is on the line too.
Geoff

 

[hurk27]

Re: Telephone premises wiring requires journeyman level elec

If your state switch to requireing you to be licensed journeymen, I would think they would have to grandfather you in as long as you can show your work history.

 

[highkvoltage]

Re: Telephone premises wiring requires journeyman level elec

hbiss. You seem to have a problem with the IBEW. I hope they did sponsor they bill. If it wasn't for the IBEW every goofball that owned a screwdiver would be calling himself/herself an ELECTRICAN! We already have enough people who grandfathered out or slipped through the cracks. They are back yard mechanics trying to work on your new Corvetts breaks. No thanks.

 

[tom baker]

Re: Telephone premises wiring requires journeyman level elec

All: Union and IBEW issues on the forum can get heated. If this discussion goes sour, the post will be pulled. And keep in mind I am a dues paying union member.
In washington state, telecom installations were not permitted or inspected until a few years ago. What was happening was the telecom contractors were being driven to the lowest bid. Also there were safety problems with excessive cables and firewall penetrations, so the industry requested regulation. Telecom installations now (except residental) are inspected, installed by licensed contractors, but the installers don't have to be licensed-this is the way the telecom industry wanted it.
It seems to me the IBEW is on board telecom installations in a big way, most of the articles in EC mag are telecom now.
Telecom is a great industry, 5 years ago you had never heard of cat 5 now there is cat 6. Put it in today and replace it tommorrow. And homeowners are willing to pay big dollars for home networks.

 

[hbiss]

Re: Telephone premises wiring requires journeyman level elec

Union and IBEW issues on the forum can get heated. If this discussion goes sour, the post will be pulled.

There is no reason we cannot have a civil discussion.

And keep in mind I am a dues paying union member.

I ask that everyone put aside their personal biases, it?s real easy to get caught up in a ?go team? attitude and be compelled to defend your union for right or wrong. That is not what we are doing here, nobody is union bashing.

Personally, I have no problem with unions, they have done great things for this country and there is no doubt that the IBEW, because of its size, organization and money is a driving force in the electrical industry.

My problem with the IBEW is that they use this power to unfairly stifle competition. (I should say here that from what I have heard from members in this forum that this may be a local issue and not practiced by the IBEW nationally). Not all contractors in this business can be or want to be members of the IBEW. Just because a contractor is not IBEW affiliated does not mean that they are not capable and knowledgeable or that they do not have the right to work.

It seems to me the IBEW is on board telecom installations in a big way?

We are a small telecom contractor and we have had our share of ?dealings? with the IBEW. Through the years we have had our wiring damaged and cut and our employees threatened. We were told we did not belong on the job. These were all non-union jobs except for the electrical contractor. Several years ago I came across this site http://www.local3antitrust.com/summary.html that describes the problems non-IBEW telecom contractors face in this area where we work.

If it were not for the IBEW every goofball that owned a screwdiver would be calling himself/herself an ELECTRICAN! We already have enough people who grandfathered out or slipped through the cracks. They are back yard mechanics...

If you are saying that the IBEW encouraged your jurisdiction or state to initiate a licensing program there is nothing wrong with that. I am a big proponent of licensing as long as it is implemented fairly and does not give unfair advantage to one group over another. The topic that started this thread, legislation allowing LV work to only be done by licensed journeymen, smacks of just the kind of thing the IBEW would want to push through to stifle competition. Granted, if passed the legislation would still allow non-union licensed journeymen to do the work but it would cut down the competitive playing field considerably. There is absolutely no reason to restrict LV work to licensed journeymen. You do not have to be a full electrician to do this work. You do need to know the relevant articles of the NEC and be proficient and this is where testing (without grandfathering), a LV licensing program and inspections insure that the work is done properly and not by ?back yard mechanics.?

This also sounds like an ?end run? around the imminent 2004 revision of the CSI Master Format that takes away from the electrical contractor responsibility for most LV work. Go to http://www.division17.net .