Stablok panels

[inspector_guy]

I have only encountered one Stablok panel in the last ten years. I have read the information about them on a product safety site, but I would like to hear some 'in the field' experiences from all of you regular electricians out there. The only one I encountered was in a closet, already feeding two sub-panels, and only 100 Amps to begin with. I advised the homebuyer that they may want to consider having there electrical service upgraded and the panel moved to a more convienant location. If I remember right the service drop was only 2 ga wire as well. Any comments about these panels?

 

[charlie]

Re: Stablok panels

For what it is worth, we use #2 AL Triplex for 200 ampere service drops so "only 2 ga wire" is not bad.

 

[droach]

Re: Stablok panels

Years ago I came across and old FPE stablock panel.The service ticket stated home owner having problem with lights going out for no reason. When I removed the dead front most of the breakers came out with the dead front. Ended up installing a new service. This is the reason FPE quit making these panels. If you come across such panels replace them the homeowner and the fire insurance company will thank you in the long run

 

[dcl34769]

Re: Stablok panels

Working in a service department in FL I have come across numerous fpe stabloc panels. Either the breakers fall out or they are so stuck you wind up breaking them out. Unfortunately Murry is making replacement breakers at about $20.00 for a 15A thin.

 

[hurk27]

Re: Stablok panels

I have had a few that was like that and have seen many FPE's that would not trip and ended replacing the panels but luckly the ones that didnt trip the wire was in conduit and the main eventuly triped but the wire welded inside the conduit and had to run new.

 

[pierre]

Re: Stablok panels

There are many problems with the FPE type panels and breakers. My suggestion to a Home Inspector is, if you see this type, put in your report that you suggest that a licenced electrician inspect the panel for any complications. This will make you the better inspector, because you will have passed the responsibility on to a professional. Delegating responsibility to another who is better able to cope with a situation shows how 'intelligent' one can be.
Jack Welsh ran GE, and got credit for what thousands of other people did.

Pierre

 

[lazorko]

Re: Stablok panels

I have run into a few cases of breakers failing to trip on overload/short circut conditions. In each case, a FPE breaker was suppling the "protection". Some studies indicate that there is a failure rate close to 50% for FPE 2-pole breakers. I recommend to my clients that they should consider replacing their FPE panels - most do.

 

[hillbilly]

Re: Stablok panels

Stablok panels? I'm not familiar with the term. Is this a Federal Pacific brand?

 

[lazorko]

Re: Stablok panels

More anecdotal evidence that FPE breakers don't work:

A client recently plugged in her iron to press some clothes; the iron was apparently shorted. After the "big spark", the electric to half her house went out. Wtih no breakers tripped, she called the power company, which found that one leg of her meter had failed. They replaced the meter and recommended she call an electrician to replace the enclosure.
The service equipment was old and needed to be replaced. The panel was a Federal Pacific, and - surprise - the 15A branch circuit breaker protecting the outlet circuit did not trip on the fault.

 

[noxx]

Re: Stablok panels

Federal Stabs are on my "throw it away" list along with Zinsco and Push-matic products. In my own experience, all three of these brands show unacceptably high rates of failure (Pushers are my favorite, as the little flag indicating "on" or "off" rarely has anything to do with the actual position of the breaker). The Feds however, seem to be the worst of the bunch for failing to open on overload, I've seen many a trashed buss on account of it.

On a technical note, it's important to remember that all of these breakers are opened thermally only, and have no magnetic trip, with the exception of very late Zinsco's. They don't provide what we've come to expect as apporopriate protection, and should be replaced.

[ September 06, 2003, 02:18 AM: Message edited by: noxx ]

 

[Guest]

Re: Stablok panels

Originally posted by hillbilly:
Stablok panels? I'm not familiar with the term. Is this a Federal Pacific brand?

Stablok is the trade name of the circuit breaker that goes in a Federal Pacific panelboard. The buss is flat and parallel with the back of the panel. There are holes that are mostly squarish in the buss. The breakers "Stab" into the buss. In some cases the stab does not grip. In other case the stab binds or welds to the buss. In that case they cannot be removed. Getting a Stablok to let go is dicey. Many Stabloks emit a foul odor from internal arcing and burning.

They made me a lot of money in 1994 as most Stablok panels were so defective they needed to be immediately swapped out for something more hunky-dorey.

The part about FPE Stablok losing its UL listing is maybe an urban myth:

FPE lost its UL: Myth or fact?

../Wayne

If you use a magnifying glass you may be able to make out the Stablok feature here:

Photo property of: www.ebay.com

 

[Guest]

Re: Stablok panels

Originally posted by noxx:
Federal Stabs are on my "throw it away" list along with Zinsco and Push-matic products. <snip>

Ditto that. Those breakers are money in the bank usually.

../Wayne

 

[roger]

Re: Stablok panels

Here's an old FPE article with good information and HI links.

Roger

 

[Guest]

Re: Stablok panels

Roger: Great links!

Did you come across any evidence that FPE actually lost their UL listing as is the subject of a major urban legend? I bought into the UL thing for a while, but have found no proof-- nor have I done too much research. Regardless of UL it's my opinion verified by field experience that FPE Stabloks are trouble for a variety of reasons. If nothing else they are mostly old and have excessive voltage drop across the breaker. Breaker manufacturers say that excessive voltage drop mandates breaker replacement. The FPE's usually fail the voltage drop test quite nicely.

../Wayne

 

[roger]

Re: Stablok panels

Wayne, like you I have heard this and it seems as though I may have seen an article backing it up in the past, but I can't put my hands on it. If it is true someone will post it before long.

Roger

 

[brian john]

Re: Stablok panels

AWWT:

In the late 70's I worked for a large firm that had a contract with FPE to replace recalled circuit breakers. The new circuit breakers were GE's and where listed as replacements.

My business partner was involved with this recall also and coordinated all the efforts for the firm we worked for at that time. I ask him on Monday if he has any of the technical information left.

 

[Guest]

Re: Stablok panels

When FPE went down there was a period when replacement breakers were not available. The only option if you wanted to expand (add breakers) or repair (replace a defective buss or breaker) in an FPE panel was to replace the whole panel and circuit breakers with an obtainable brand. That may have been the basis for the urban legend. Yes, please post here with any findings.

../Wayne

 

[cselectric]

Re: Stablok panels

Come on guys, those old Stablocs are great breakers... assuming you want to hook your arc welder up to a 15 Amp circuit.

 

[bennie]

Re: Stablok panels

Look at; www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm

 

[hillbilly]

Re: Stablok panels

For the past 3 years I've worked as a sub for a plumbing outfit. Our project has been to install pumped sewage systems on over 200 houses ranging in age from 1 to 80 years old. Each job required a 30A 240 volt branch circuit to feed the grinder pump. It has been interesting and very educational installing these systems as I've seen just about all there is to see regarding the evolution of residential wiring. Each system has been inspected by a tough and very knowledgeable city inspector. The work has been everything from complete service changes, taps, or simply adding a new breaker to a available space, the least work possible to make a safe and coded installation. During these installations I've run across every conceiveable electrical service and panel. Fused, "Push-o-Matic", Murray, QO, Homeline, Challenger, GE, Westinghouse, Cutler hammer, ITE, Siemens, etc. The only one that looked like a strange animal to me was A Federal Pacific "Stablock". It took me over 2 weeks to find a 2 pole 30A breaker for this "thing". When I looked at the way it was mounted, I didn't like it. How about it, Is it still UL listed?
steve