Service entrance conductors and service feeders in the same raceway

Location
xm7300p0
Occupation
Electrician
I have a 2 150 amp panels and 2 150 ATS sharing metal enclosures. Not conduit. My inspectors is quoting 230.7 im really stumped on this one. Because my feeds are all parallel. The only solution have is a meter combo with disconnect.
Service entrance is on left side.

 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
So the service entrance conductors come into the wireway on the left and go through to the two transfer switches with the load side of the transfer switches feeding the two panels? Sounds like the issue is with the SEC's and feeders for the panels in the same raceway that raceway being the metal wireway.
 
Location
xm7300p0
Occupation
Electrician
So the service entrance conductors come into the wireway on the left and go through to the two transfer switches with the load side of the transfer switches feeding the two panels? Sounds like the issue is with the SEC's and feeders for the panels in the same raceway that raceway being the metal wireway.
Yes that is correct. At first we wanted to go back to back of the panels, my boss and home owners started redesigning to place them inside. And here we are now. I take responsibility for my screw up. Any suggestions to help would be much appreciated. Thanks. I thought t we would fall under article 230 Optional standby equipment. Or exemption 230.7 exemption (2). Basically what the chief inspector keeps going back to is fused a non-fuse conductors in the same raceway.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
IMO 230.7Ex2 does not apply. Unfortunately I agree with the inspector, the SEC's will need to be routed out of the wireways and run directly to the ATS's but there still is an issue with the length of SEC's run within the garage. Around here that much unprotected SEC length would not be permitted. IMO you need to install the service disconnects on the outside and run a feeder to the ATS's (which can be in the wireways) or if possible run the SEC's on the outside directly into the ATS's.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Is it the 10’ rule? Must have a disconnect if over 10’ or is it 6’? Thanks. Were at 9’ from meter.
There is no length given in the NEC it just says "nearest the point of entrance of the SEC's". Some places allow more some less. By the wording of that section you would need to go directly into the ATS's from the outside.
 
Location
xm7300p0
Occupation
Electrician
So I’m up against a few obstacles. I wanted to mount the boxes back to back on the outside in theory it could work if no rebar’s in the way life would be happy happy. But I just came up with a new solution which was to actually move the panel boxes up a few inches up to a foot so I can separate my service entrance conductors for my service entrance feeders. The thing that gets me is that Mike Holtz says as long as the wires are in an enclosure that they can be together and he also talks about them before the meter side. Ours is completely after the meter everything has a overcurrent protection its safer than a panel box. Could some security screws and some high-voltage stickers fix the problem? Also what threw me a curve ball Was it says under special conditions standby operational systems is allowed to be a service. The definition of a service is from which the power is served. The ATSs have covers on them. Thoughts?I personally look at it like two services plus disconnects sharing 2 enclosures. Going to have to move them up so separate everything and not look like crap. The biggest obstacle is i need a 300 amp disconnect. Or 2 150’s i have to cram to the left.
If you can route the service raceways around the corner by the generator then you can run them on the outside of the garage without the need for an OCPD.
cant cross TECO feeders
 
Location
xm7300p0
Occupation
Electrician
Im raising the panels or lowering the SEC’s and adding a new metal enclosure for service feeders to the panels or maybe flexing back to the panels . All will be separated. I just need space.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Ok, after doing some more reading. Im woundering if there is a huge miss understanding that these are feeders and NOT ESC’s. it may be allowed.
What are feeders and not service entrance conductors the ones coming from the meter enclosure? Is there an OCPD at the meter?
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
A feeder is the set of conductors with an OCPD at both ends. Since the conductors coming from the utility company do not have an OCPD they are service entrance conductors.
From what I can see in your set up you have :
Meter>Service Entrance Conductors>ATS>Feeder Conductors>Panel
 
Top