Service entrance conductor sizing

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We have installed a 400 Amp residential UG service with 2 parallel 2inch conduits each with 4/0 triplex aluminum. The local AHJ is questioning whether this is adequate for a 400 Amp service.

Any comments?
 

ryan_618

Senior Member
Re: Service entrance conductor sizing

I can't think of anything to prohibit this, unless the load is greater than the ampacity of the conductors. 310.15(B)(6) can be used, but 230.42 will still have to be satisfied.
 

websparky

Senior Member
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Service entrance conductor sizing

If your load calcs were figured properly for the dwelling unit, I would have no problem with it.

What type of panel will you be using that accomidates parallel 4/0's and is rated at 400A??
 

jeffrose

Member
Re: Service entrance conductor sizing

sounds like a legitimite installation to me but please tell me you did not install 2 200A panels.
That practice has reached epidemic proportions in my area.
 

pierre

Senior Member
Re: Service entrance conductor sizing

I have a question about this type of installation.
Can 310.15(B)(2)(a) be used in this instance?
The title to this section says 3-Wire, and inspectorparker is possibly paralleling this installation. 310.16 , 4/0 Al is good for 180 amps/360 paralleled.
Again this is a question and I am curious if I am reading this section correctly.

For those who like to read the Handbook, p. 274 - the sentence that is explanatory starts with... "If a single set of 3-wire, single-phase ....

Does this mean that the table cannot be used with parallel service conductors?

Pierre
 

charlie

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis
Re: Service entrance conductor sizing

From the NFPA NEC Handbook, "If a single set of 3-wire, single-phase, service-entrance conductors in raceway or cable supplies a one-family, two-family, or multifamily dwelling, the reduced conductor size permitted by 310.15(B)(6) is applicable to the service-entrance conductors, service-lateral conductors, or any feeder conductors that supply the main power feeder to a dwelling unit.

This section permits the main feeder to a dwelling unit to be sized according to the conductor sizes in Table 310.15(B)(6) even if other loads, such as ac units and pool loads, are fed from the same service. The feeder conductors to a dwelling unit are not required to be larger than its service-entrance conductors."

Please keep in mind that the opinions in the handbook are just that, opinions of the authors. The only way to get the Code Making Panel's opinion is to get a formal interpretation. In this particular case, I agree with the authors. :D

BTW, what is wrong with a pair of 200 ampere panelboards instead of a single 400 ampere panelboard? Both are 400 ampere services.
 

luke warmwater

Senior Member
Re: Service entrance conductor sizing

Originally posted by jeffrose:
sounds like a legitimite installation to me but please tell me you did not install 2 200A panels.
That practice has reached epidemic proportions in my area.
What's wrong with this setup??
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: Service entrance conductor sizing

Inquiring minds want to know. :)

I would rather have two 200 amp panels with 84 circuits than one 400 amp panel with 42 circuits.
 

stars13bars2

Senior Member
Re: Service entrance conductor sizing

Do you use ct's for the meter when using two 200amp panels on the residential service???
 
A

a.wayne3@verizon.net

Guest
Re: Service entrance conductor sizing

I have built many 400 amp 2 - 200 amp panel services over the years never used ct`s on them.Also have done several 600 amp single family services also no ct`s.Built an 800 amp for a 32,000 sq. ft. home a few years ago it was a CT service.
 

amptech

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
Re: Service entrance conductor sizing

I would also like to know what's wrong with (2) 200A panels. The 2 utilities in my area do not CT services smaller than 600A. They require a 320A rated meter base. One utility supplies the meterbase and the other requires you to purchase one meeting their specs. Both will accept an all-in-one meter-main and that's what I generally use such as a Siemens MM0404ML22L rated 320A with (2) 200A circuit breakers. Sometimes the utility runs 2 sets of 4/0 alum URD tri and sometimes they run 1 set of 500 urd tri. Of course, 4 wire feeders are required between the meter-main and the loadcenters.
 
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a.wayne3@verizon.net

Guest
Re: Service entrance conductor sizing

Funny how in different parts of the country things are so different.600 ct or 600 not a ct service.Here we use a k4 bolt on meter base for a single phase 600 amp service,but in other areas they are ct services.We also use a 320/400 amp.meter base for 400`s and feed the 2 panels off double lugs but we also feed 600`s off triple lugs on a k4 meter base so no ct`s.
 

george t. everett

Senior Member
Location
New York
Re: Service entrance conductor sizing

The International Residential Code requires 300kcmil aluminum for parallel 400 amp services(TableE3503.1). This the code I have to follow in my area.
 

luke warmwater

Senior Member
Re: Service entrance conductor sizing

George, please read in Chapter 33: E3301.1 Applicablity. For those of you who don't have it, the last sentence reads..."Other wiring methods, materials, and subject matter covered in the NFPA 70 are also allowed by this code."

It seems as if the ICC didn't want to copy every section of the NEC into the IRC. The 2003 IRC is already 604 pages.
Todd
 
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