Residential- Ways to maximize profit through procedure

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aelectricalman

aelectricalman

Senior Member
Location
KY
I know I post a lot but this is a neat forum. I am intrested in absorbing as much as I can from those of you who are more experienced. I would like those of you who might have tryed things the hard way first to give me some insight as to how to get it right the first time. What are your methods for saving money in homes. I wire only 2500sqft houses and larger, so no cookie cutter info please. Just to let everyone know my business model. I wire 20-30 homes a year and wire 4-5 light commercial jobs per year. I have 4 men that work for me. Exclude overhead and payrates. I am interested in only wiring procedure. Thank you very much for any help.

Example: Running 3 wires to a single location and using 2 circuits with a shared nuteral. Actually Im not even sure if you can still do this!! You get my drift. Thanks again.
 
peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Re: Residential- Ways to maximize profit through procedure

What exactly would you like to know?

Using multiwire circuits (shared neutrals) is one huge labor saver. You can easily cut your homeruns in half, it just takes a little planning.

For instance, run one 12/3 to a deep 4" sq box with single gang plaster ring, and then you have your kitchen homerun done. From there, feed your countertop circuits.
 
electricmanscott

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Re: Residential- Ways to maximize profit through procedure

One thing I like to do is finsh as much as possible at one time. Example wire the attic lights, install the fixtures and lamps. No need to go back into the attic with tools and such. Same with basement wiring. Some guys will rough line voltage through a house then go back and do low voltage. I like to do it all at the same time. Set up once with tools and materials, and clean up once. Saves a little time but it all adds up. Same thing with finsh. I finsh out a room completely, no going back to install a closet light or smoke detector.
 
George Stolz

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Re: Residential- Ways to maximize profit through procedure

I agree with Scott. Box everything, drill everything, and then pull everything.

One spot we might diverge is that on trim, I switch and plug seated on my high-speed rolling seat. :) Then I'll put my bags on and hang lights, and 100% each room on out at light-hanging time.

I tend not to lean on the multiwire scene too much, cause by the time I've figured out the ideal setup to avoid box fill, etc, I could have pulled three regular home runs. :) Then there's the whole, "Is this my travellers or my home runs?" concentration issue. Not a big deal, but a factor.

The biggest foe I have is overthinking a problem. Spend a lot of time trying to find the best way, and the worst way would've been done by now.

...so no cookie cutter info please.
Click to expand...
Hey, cookie cutters are a good place to find a rhythm!
 
K

ken987

Senior Member
Re: Residential- Ways to maximize profit through procedure

Save a call back on a finish when all the appliances aren't there, have the builder order all the appliances with cords, so you just have to set an outlet and be done with it. Let the plumber and builder plug in the dishwasher and disposal.

other advise don't leave till your done with the job. nothing wastes more time than starting something stopping and then coming back later.
 
G

gndrod

Senior Member
Location
Ca and Wa
Re: Residential- Ways to maximize profit through procedure

aelectricalman,

Marking home runs and switch legs using a notch system will save over 1.5 hr per 1200 sf residential in NM cable identification. That's three hours in the 2400 you mention. Notching eliminates twisting or stripping-out switchleg hots and writing circuit descriptions on romex sheathing. I learned this over 35 years ago and have saved $$$ in labor costs.

rbj, Seattle
 
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metaleater

Member
Re: Residential- Ways to maximize profit through procedure

One thing I like to do is finsh as much as possible at one time. Example wire the attic lights, install the fixtures and lamps. No need to go back into the attic with tools and such. Same with basement wiring. Some guys will rough line voltage through a house then go back and do low voltage. I like to do it all at the same time. Set up once with tools and materials, and clean up once. Saves a little time but it all adds up. Same thing with finsh. I finsh out a room completely, no going back to install a closet light or smoke detector.
Click to expand...
I agree.Somtimes ya have no choice tho.they never bring all the lights, there is always something missing.

I always on rough in first get every thing marked.then me and helper nail up all rec. and swt. boxes up.Then start up stairs get all light boxs up.then start pulling wire.do everything upstairs first.most changes seem to happen more downstairs.doing upstairs first gives homeowners time to decide on those unsure of things downstairs.

as for pulling wire, upstairs and downstairs.I always start at one end of house and pull everything as I work go along to other side of house.doing this helps the guy pulling wire under the house.As I do all that I always complete the circuit before going to the next.My planing for circuits are always plan to have the hole circuit near at an point together than having it spread all over the place except those circuits I have no choice like bath rec.trying to prevent the crawler from crawling so much helps greatly.Also it dose not take two people to pull an circuit unless it under the house.Some people I've notice uses to people to do that but all it dose is make each other get in each others way.

for trim.there are many ways I've seen that makes it go faster.The fastest seems for me.is that if you have an helper that is good and can be do own there own some.I would have them device the upstairs and put up lights up there to.While I do the downstairs.by the time the helper is done upstairs then I should be done downstairs.so i'll have that helper do outside stuff while I get the kitchen finished up.

the key is try to get each person on there own thing.thing get done fast when alot is getting done in same time then one thing at a time but everyone should do there own thing one thing at a time.

always experiment new ways of planning.

job is bid for an amount of time to get it done.
getting the job done sooner then you just made more profit.I bid to do a job in 6 days on rough-in but I finish in 3 days ;)

[ December 30, 2004, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: metaleater ]
 
M

metaleater

Member
Re: Residential- Ways to maximize profit through procedure

Hear is one thing that will take up time I'v seen one of my employers do.while I pull wire (just about everything) he will cut in behind me as I go along.I think thats an no no.He is not really helping at all.I think cutting end and nail platting is the last thing to do on an rough-in.I takes me an average of 2hrs to do both cut-in and nail plate.I always get the time cusoming part done first like the wiring part.
 
rlsparky

rlsparky

Member
Location
Ca
Re: Residential- Ways to maximize profit through procedure

One thing I do to save money is I trim out the gargage disposal outlet and dishwasher outlet at rough in. I use a 4sq. bracket box and an extension ring and trim it with a raised cover.I put some blue painters tape over the outlets to keep them from getting screwed up from the tapers. Sure saves the time having to work around the disposal and sink plumbing trying to trim out the outlets
 
K

ken987

Senior Member
Re: Residential- Ways to maximize profit through procedure

Personally I like marking all the wires with a sharpie. Not the simple stuff, but say a 4 gang box with nothing but 3ways and 4ways in it, and all the Home runs so I know there done.
 
M

macmikeman

Senior Member
Location
Planet macmikeman
Re: Residential- Ways to maximize profit through procedure

I use a Passload cordless framing nail gun whwnever I need to install blocking . Also I set up a chop saw whenever I do a rough in for cutting short blocking pieces. The self leveling plumb lazers help with speed up of placing boxes for light fixtures and recess cans also. Mark the floor and spot the lazer on the spot and bingo the dot is shot up to the ceiling location of the fixture center.
 
B

bigjohn67

Senior Member
Re: Residential- Ways to maximize profit through procedure

Best advise:

Completly wire the job on rough-in. Make all taps neccessary.
By the time you finish the rough in you should be at about 60% of your bid. 40% for Trim out- this includes the service.
 
M

marcerrin

Senior Member
Re: Residential- Ways to maximize profit through procedure

I started working 4 10 hour days for my residential crews, and it seems to be working great. The guys like it too. They say having three days off really gives them a chance to relax, and when they get back to work on monday, they're refreshed and ready to hit it.
Its less load and unload time as well.
 
peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Re: Residential- Ways to maximize profit through procedure

I saw the "notch system" being used when I visited California, well, at least I thought it was the notch system.

I was curious how they roughed houses so quickly without marking any of the cables. Until I looked a little more closely....

Using a razor blade or T-strippers, you make several slashes in the jacket, towards the end of the cable where it won't matter if you dig in too far.

One notch = home run/ feed in/ feed out
Two notches = switched leg (feed to light)
three notches = 3 way switch loop
four notches = to mark a 3 wire cable that feeds split duplexes.

or whatever system you like.

Another technique you use with the notch method is what George mentioned: positioning the cables in the box in the same order they are switched. Sometimes you don't even need to notch all the cables.

Take a 3 gang, with 2 single poles and 1 3-way, feed in and feed out. The feed in and feed out go to the left and get one notch. The remaning cables are in the switch order, and don't need to be notched because it is assumed they go to the 3 switches.

You still have to mark the cables at the panel, but this method saves a ton of time.


Rbj, if I missed it completely please let me know. :)
 
H

hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Residential- Ways to maximize profit through procedure

George We save allot of time by marking a short piece of the sheathing on the NM and sliding it back on the hot conductor when each circuit is pulled. When it's time to mark the panel it's easy, just copy it to the ledger. Also saves from terminating the neutrals from the bedrooms leaving them for the AFCI's. (We terminate the grounds and neutrals on the rough)
 
George Stolz

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Re: Residential- Ways to maximize profit through procedure

See, I crimp my AFCI's, strip an inch and twist the end of my furnace (temp heat), and crimp my temp power (washer). I terminate the neutrals and grounds at rough too (except my AFCI neutrals).

As long as I don't spend 15 minutes trying to figure out why I have an extra 15 amp breaker (admittedly, sometimes it happens) at trim, I save a lot of time not keeping track of labels. I can strip every romex connector at once (2 or 3 cables) as opposed to individually tracking labels on each home run. Once my special ones are stripped, I can cut the ends uniformly on the rest, going to town on it.

I end up double-checking the labels at trim, or losing them on the rough, so I just run without unless I have a compelling reason. I also have a habit of thinking ahead to my next circuit, so while I'm thinking, I'll write the next circuit instead of the one I'm on (write 2 microwaves). Lame, but true. :)
 
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