residential grounds

[FREEBALL]

I was doing a job today and when I opened the panel I found that all of the incoming NM (romex) grounds were twisted together into 1 twisted pair and placed on a lug for number 2 connected to the neutral buss which ofcourse is bonded to ground. My question is how is this code compliant. Any thoughts.

 

[pete m.]

My guess would be that it is not code compliant. Although I have seen it in many older installations.

Would probably be a violation of 110.3(B).

Pete

 

[mwm1752]

terminations per the listing of the buss bar as noted

 

[FREEBALL]

theres no way to simply detatch a circuit to move or repair without taking all of the grounds apart its unreal it was inspected in 2002 I was trying to use a 3/4 ko for a pvc run and couldn't move the romex out of the way because they were all twisted together with the grounds. Needless to say my 9's got a weld spot. But who does this crap. They also used the blue carlon romex connectors which are terrible to remove unreal

so if you have to replace a piece of romex you have to pull the entire twisted pair from the lug and unwind it, leaving all circuits ungrounded until you rewind it and attatch it. This cant be right, but it passed inspection?

 

[pete m.]

theres no way to simply detatch a circuit to move or repair without taking all of the grounds apart

Very true but you will find that many load centers are listed for multiple EGC's under one terminal as long as they are the same size. This presents the same complication you describe but on a smaller scale. The only other option I can think of is to de-energize the affected branch circuits.

Pete

 

[FREEBALL]

yea that would involve turning of the main because they are all involved. But yea there is a combination of 10, 12 and 14 grounds together you mean to tell me that this was legal. I remember in the 80s inspectors griping on a 12 and 14 ground under the same ground spot on the ground bar. I have to check the book I guess theres no way this is or was code.

 

[pete m.]

yea that would involve turning of the main because they are all involved. But yea there is a combination of 10, 12 and 14 grounds together you mean to tell me that this was legal. I remember in the 80s inspectors griping on a 12 and 14 ground under the same ground spot on the ground bar. I have to check the book I guess theres no way this is or was code.

There should be labeling on the panel itself that will tell you how many and what combination (if any) of EGC's that are permitted to be terminated on the terminal bar. You won't find that answer in the NEC short of the NEC requiring a separate terminal for each grounded conductor.

Pete

 

[FREEBALL]

its not the grounded conductor its the grounding conductor typically you can place 2 conductors of same size under 1 term but how can you twist all of the grounds together so tight and then place under 1 lug, that's unreal.

 

[FREEBALL]

its like the panel was trimmed out by a panel trimmer, we had them in the day in big commercial jobs, the grounds are all twisted so tight like by a drill , cut and then placed under the 2awg lug on the neutral bar . They just cut in a panel and move on but this really is an issue when it comes to fixing issues down the road

 

[pete m.]

its like the panel was trimmed out by a panel trimmer, we had them in the day in big commercial jobs, the grounds are all twisted so tight like by a drill , cut and then placed under the 2awg lug on the neutral bar . They just cut in a panel and move on but this really is an issue when it comes to fixing issues down the road

As I said, I doubt it is NEC compliant. Sometimes inspectors do pass things out of ignorance or indiscretion. I agree with the issues it can present.

Pete

 

[JFletcher]

I was doing a job today and when I opened the panel I found that all of the incoming NM (romex) grounds were twisted together into 1 twisted pair and placed on a lug for number 2 connected to the neutral buss which ofcourse is bonded to ground. My question is how is this code compliant. Any thoughts.

Twisted pair cabling reduces interference and cross talk. You got to see Cat14e cable!

kidding aside, I have no idea how that is code compliant. There is no way that I see using that method to ensure each grounding wire is secure in the lug. How do you know it was inspected in 2002 tho? or ever?