Receptacle Replacement

[czars]

We are on the 2014 NEC. Article 406.4(D)(4). It is my understanding that if a standard receptacle is replaced on a circuit that did not require AFCI protection when it was originally installed but now does, AFCI protection does not have to be installed. In other words, AFCI protection is not required to be installed if it was not required when the circuit was originally installed. Am I right in my understanding?

 

[augie47]

Mu understanding is the opposite. Effective 1/1/14 if the area is one which requires arc-fault protection under the '14 Code, a replacement receptacle must be AFCI.protected.

 

[tom baker]

Yes also for GFCI

 

[hbiss]

... a replacement receptacle must be AFCI protected.

Which will also require the installation of a special "companion" AFCI breaker to feed that circuit because the AFCI receptacle requires it. It's not a standalone like a GFCI receptacle. Or you can just install an AFCI breaker.

I can see a simple receptacle replacement turning into an entire panel replacement or the addition of a sub panel.

-Hal

 

[LarryFine]

We are on the 2014 NEC. Article 406.4(D)(4). It is my understanding that if a standard receptacle is replaced on a circuit that did not require AFCI protection when it was originally installed but now does, AFCI protection does not have to be installed. In other words, AFCI protection is not required to be installed if it was not required when the circuit was originally installed. Am I right in my understanding?

I have only installed standard receptacles to replace standard receptacles, and intend on continuing to do so as long as I can get away with it.

Not that I would have such a replacement permitted and inspected. We have a fairly liberal "replace like with like" allowance to do such here.

 

[hbiss]

I have only installed standard receptacles to replace standard receptacles, and intend on continuing to do so as long as I can get away with it.

I agree. This requirement is way over the top and crosses over into ridiculous.

-Hal

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Mu understanding is the opposite. Effective 1/1/14 if the area is one which requires arc-fault protection under the '14 Code, a replacement receptacle must be AFCI.protected.

That is exactly right Gus.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Which will also require the installation of a special "companion" AFCI breaker to feed that circuit because the AFCI receptacle requires it. It's not a standalone like a GFCI receptacle. Or you can just install an AFCI breaker.

I can see a simple receptacle replacement turning into an entire panel replacement or the addition of a sub panel.

-Hal

If you are saying that an afci receptacles cannot be used without a companion breaker then I have to disagree

 

[roger]

I have only installed standard receptacles to replace standard receptacles, and intend on continuing to do so as long as I can get away with it.

Not that I would have such a replacement permitted and inspected. We have a fairly liberal "replace like with like" allowance to do such here.

:thumbsup:

Roger

 

[ptonsparky]

Two wire receptacle replacement with three wire device have required the use of a GFCI device for years. Now the AFCI requirement is added. Replacing a simple $0.89 two wire device would now require the AFCI/GFCI dual function device at plus $30 each. Now add the extra hour to cut in a bigger box. It’s just money.

 

[sameguy]

Because they said so! Cost isn't a concern, if it COULD save just one child!
My house still has ungrounded devices with metal boxes bonded to the ground; no one has been hurt or killed yet in over 50 years.

 

[hbiss]

If you are saying that an afci receptacles cannot be used without a companion breaker then I have to disagree

Scroll down and watch the video starting at 2:30 https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/catal...ceptacles.html

This is what I understand.

Personally I like their suggestion to enclose the home run to the AFCI receptacle in 2" of concrete. Then you can just use the receptacle.

-Hal

 

[LarryFine]

Two wire receptacle replacement with three wire device have required the use of a GFCI device for years

. . . in cases where there is no EGC present.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Scroll down and watch the video starting at 2:30 https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/catal...ceptacles.html

This is what I understand.

Personally I like their suggestion to enclose the home run to the AFCI receptacle in 2" of concrete. Then you can just use the receptacle.

-Hal

That is just another method to obtain the protection. If you have a new circuit then you have to protect at the source and a standard afci breaker can be used. If you do a replacement in an area that requires afci then an afci receptacle can be used without a afci breaker that works in conjunction with the receptacle. As the video stated, the breaker and receptacle combo is quite expensive and protects the entire cir circuit. If you only need to protect the receptacle you have changed then an afci receptacle can be used.

 

[hbiss]

That is just another method to obtain the protection. If you have a new circuit then you have to protect at the source and a standard afci breaker can be used. If you do a replacement in an area that requires afci then an afci receptacle can be used without a afci breaker that works in conjunction with the receptacle. As the video stated, the breaker and receptacle combo is quite expensive and protects the entire cir circuit. If you only need to protect the receptacle you have changed then an afci receptacle can be used.

I'm not sure of that. What purpose does the special breaker serve if you can just use a AFCI receptacle alone? Why not a AFCI breaker and a regular receptacle? Something doesn't make sense here.

-Hal

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I'm not sure of that. What purpose does the special breaker serve if you can just use a AFCI receptacle alone? Why not a AFCI breaker and a regular receptacle? Something doesn't make sense here.

-Hal

It's a fair question and I have no idea why the combo system is even thought about. You can use a lone afci breaker without a supplementary receptacle so why do you think an afci receptacle cannot be a stand alone. Trust me on this, if you don't need to protect the entire circuit then a stand alone afci receptacle is all that is needed to protect the replaced receptacle.

 

[hbiss]

That is just another method to obtain the protection. If you have a new circuit then you have to protect at the source and a standard afci breaker can be used. If you do a replacement in an area that requires afci then an afci receptacle can be used without a afci breaker that works in conjunction with the receptacle. As the video stated, the breaker and receptacle combo is quite expensive and protects the entire cir circuit. If you only need to protect the receptacle you have changed then an afci receptacle can be used.

I'm not sure of that. Nowhere in that video does it mention the use of a stand alone AFCI receptacle except where the home run to the first AFCI receptacle supplying a circuit is limited in length and protected. That would only be practical in new construction.

The video seems to be implying that you need to install an AFCI breaker otherwise those other requirements come into play. That means that if a replacement receptacle needs to be AFCI protected the most logical way is with an AFCI breaker in the panel.

-Hal

 

[Dennis Alwon]

406.4(D)-- read it again. I don't think I can add anything else to this discussion. It is clear in this section, IMO

(4) Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection. Where a receptacle
outlet is located in any areas specified in 210.12(A) or (B),
a replacement receptacle at this outlet shall be one of the
following:
(1) A listed outlet branch-circuit type arc-fault circuit interrupter
receptacle
(2) A receptacle protected by a listed outlet branch-circuit
type arc-fault circuit-interrupter type receptacle
(3) A receptacle protected by a listed combination type arcfault
circuit-interrupter type circuit breaker

 

[hbiss]

Well, just because the NEC requires something doesn't mean that it exists, so you can't go by what they say. My understanding was that there were no stand alone AFCI receptacles. That video doesn't mention them either, but I searched further and found validation for what you are saying.

file:///C:/Users/Hal/AppData/Local/Temp/PS-White-Paper_AFCI-Point-of-Use.pdf

See the illustration to the right in page 6.

-Hal

 

[AltPartsInc]

That is just another method to get protection. If you've got a replacement circuit then you've got to guard at the source and a typical afci breaker is often used. If you are doing a replacement in an area that needs afci then an afci receptacle are often used without a afci breaker that works in conjunction with the receptacle.