Receptacle Above Ceiling

[tom baker]

Re: Receptacle Above Ceiling

There is a simple solution for a ceiling mounted projector. Install a receptacle flush in the ceiling. Caddy makes a t-bar hanger for this purpose. Cords are not allowed above a ceiling. The 2002 NEC added the words suspenpended ceiling to clarify what a ceiling was. The CMP was clear on its intent that no cords are allowed above a ceiling, suspended or otherwise.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Receptacle Above Ceiling

Jim,
I understand your logic, but I find no specific provision in 400.7 that permits cords above a ceiling even if they are part of a listed appliance. 400.8 clearly requires a specific permission, and without it, the cords are not permitted. Just my opinion.
Don

 

[cs409]

Re: Receptacle Above Ceiling

cords are allowed,,,400-8 Uses Not permitted. Unless specifically permitted in section 400-7(a) """". BUT you also need to read 400-7(b) and it states""" only cords plugging into an outlet must meet 400-7(a)(3), 400-7(a)(6), and 400-7(a)(8).... so you cant hard wire cord/s unless it meets 400-7(a)(7)and or(10)...although slim,vague,,,am sure there is something built that could be installed that would/could fit the bill! but bottom line, you can install outlets above the suspended ceiling, drop ceiling. etc...and use them accordingly..

 

[jim dungar]

Re: Receptacle Above Ceiling

Bob,

I agree that the application of 400.7 might be a grey area. My point is that the installation must be disqualified from coverage by 400.7 before 400.8 can be cited.

IMO, it is fairly easy to see a permission under 400.7(A)(8) if the device (as defined, appliances are more than simply "white goods") is NRTL listed with a factory installed power cable. Ready removal is too subjective to be the sole determining factor in maintenance and repair. If it cannot be fixed in place then it has to be removed regardless of difficulty and the question then becomes "how many trades are required for removal".

 

[iwire]

Re: Receptacle Above Ceiling

Originally posted by tom baker:
There is a simple solution for a ceiling mounted projector. Install a receptacle flush in the ceiling.

That is simple but will not solve the problem with the units I see being installed.

These are motorized units that lower the video projector from hidden above the ceiling for storage to dropped down below the ceiling for use.

These are large boxes that are 99% above the ceiling with a rubber cord that exits the unit above the ceiling.

If I did mount the outlet on the ceiling the cord would have to run from above the ceiling through a hole to below the ceiling.

I was very surprised to learn that this is a violation.

 

[fc]

Re: Receptacle Above Ceiling

iwire That's what we run across all the time with the projectors. I guess they will have to make them so we hard wire them. That will not be so bad but when do you think they will? Same goes with the condesate pumps.

 

[iwire]

Re: Receptacle Above Ceiling

Originally posted by jim dungar:
(as defined, appliances are more than simply "white goods") is NRTL listed with a factory installed power cable. Ready removal is too subjective to be the sole determining factor in maintenance and repair.

I agree these are, or can be considered appliances, I also agree that ready removal is undefined.

I do not agree that ready removal can be ignored. Once a unit needs tools to remove it, IMO ready removal goes out the window.

In other words if you need to unbolt it, you could just as easily unwire it. But this is just a personal opinion, I dislike cords used in areas that they do not absolutely need to be.

These units could just as easily come ready for hardwiring, just like the motorized screens that are just 10' or 15' away.

JMHO, Bob

[ June 18, 2004, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[jim dungar]

Re: Receptacle Above Ceiling

Bob,
Yes, these drop down projectors could be built as hard wired, but until the manufacturer changes them what do we do?

Also, making everything hardwired requires an electrician for every service call. I can't wait to see the reaction to the billing for a 2 hour electrician service call to unwire a wireless ethernet transmitter(do they even make these hardwired?) located near the building roof.

 

[cs409]

Re: Receptacle Above Ceiling

until the NEC is written on a level for electrician/technical person/s to understand and work by, we will always have problems using/applying the trade to meet code!