I was curious what contractors are doing when dealing with this situation. I have not dealt with this in many years, during that time we basically used something similar to window screen and made like a basket over and around the can to maintain required clearances, what is your method. The cans specified are non-ic we checked on ic rated and the price was way out of line.
Protecting non-IC cans in attic space
- Thread starter KWH
- Start date
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electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Since the customer is paying why should it matter what the cost is?
I bet current energy codes would be violated with your method.
Do it right, use the correct cans.
I bet current energy codes would be violated with your method.
Do it right, use the correct cans.
Steviechia2
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
I agree with Scott. Why wouldn't you just use IC cans?
mcclary's electrical
Senior Member
- Location
- VA
IC Cans
IC Cans
I am just getting in the loop on this job. The cans specified in the fixture package are non ic which was discovered after the fact, these cans are the ballast type. I am not sure of the details concerning the bid but just looking for ideas to protect these cans. The cost to change to IC rated on this job is over 3,000.00 dollars concerning these recess cans.
IC Cans
I am just getting in the loop on this job. The cans specified in the fixture package are non ic which was discovered after the fact, these cans are the ballast type. I am not sure of the details concerning the bid but just looking for ideas to protect these cans. The cost to change to IC rated on this job is over 3,000.00 dollars concerning these recess cans.
mcclary's electrical
Senior Member
- Location
- VA
stevenje
Senior Member
- Location
- Yachats Oregon
What would be the added cost (labor and material) to make the non-IC cans spec'd out in the job, code compliant? That is going to be the deciding factor on which ones you should use for the project. Some times what looks like the best price in the beginning really costs you more in the end. This could be one of them. If you go with the non-IC cans make sure to go back and inspect the insulators work around your cans. If they mess up it is you that will have to go back and fix the problem of cycling lamps and bad thermals. Been there. Done that.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
I'm having trouble with this. If I was the building owner I'd be pissed when I found out the electrician left me with a bunch of voids in my insulation.
Also I'm not sure this is even an option with todays energy codes.
I'll say it again, just do it right.
Also I'm not sure this is even an option with todays energy codes.
I'll say it again, just do it right.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Mike Holmes would be proud.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
We used to build a box around them but the new energy codes may not allow a non IC can where insulation is required. I would check that out.
M_J_C
Member
- Location
- Southeast Florida
In the past, every contractor I've worked for has used something similar to what you've described, "chicken wire" or the like to keep the insulation away from Non-IC rated recessed fixtures installed where insulation may encroach upon them. What has changed over the years, and where some confusion appears to be, is the requirement for "air-tight" fixtures.
Here in FL and elsewhere in the US, the building code (or energy code) states that any penetration between conditioned and non-conditioned spaces needs to be effectively sealed to the original building envelop rating.
Almost every airtight fixture I've used is also IC rated. However, in the case of ceiling speakers, or IC/airtight fixtures being to pricey or not available, you do have an option. You can frame around the fixture and install ceiling material (the same thickness drywall or whatever is being used) to the framing, and then install your fixture. This satisfies the fire rating, air movement, and clearance around the fixture requirements, and allows insulation to be wrapped around the box maintaining the "R" rating of the ceiling.
Since we are not the most efficient framers or drywall installers, we usually work something out with the contractor who is doing the framing/drywall work on site so that the additional cost to us is minimal.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I installed a few 4" cans for swivels over the mantles in a gutted remodel (in Church Hill, for you Va guys). The cans were air tight but not IC rated, so I built 5-sided 1' cube cages from 1/4" wire screen, which kept the blown-in insulation 3" or more away.
I cut + shapes and folded the four arms to make open boxes, and bent the cut wire ends to hold the boxes together. I stapled them to the joists open-side down (obviously). The inspector was thrilled, and acted as if he'd never seen anything like it. :roll:
I cut + shapes and folded the four arms to make open boxes, and bent the cut wire ends to hold the boxes together. I stapled them to the joists open-side down (obviously). The inspector was thrilled, and acted as if he'd never seen anything like it. :roll:
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Don't know if electronic CFL or MH, but I have yet to find a manufacture that will warranty their product if these are mounted in an insulated ceiling, in fact almost all the one I have found had explicate instructions not to do so, with a warning in the instructions "DO NOT USE IN INSULATED CEILINGS"
I have one customer (wired by someone else) who has some and we have been changing out ballast to a new high temp Moterola for two 42w CFL's, and still we get ballest failures, they all had box's made around them out of 2" blue board, and would still get hot just from the ballast and lamps.
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