Problem with Fountain

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JES2727

Senior Member
Location
NJ
I'm having a problem with a fountain in an office park. The fountain itself is just a submersible pump which is plug and cord connected to a GFI receptacle in the adjacent shrubbery. Actually, it's connected to a time clock which is plugged in to the recep. It is in a weatherproof enclosure. It is causing the GFI to trip. It was tripping about once a day. I replaced the time clock, replaced the male plug (with built in GFI) with a standard weatherproof type, and installed a new GFI recep. Now it trips about every 30 minutes. I'm told the pump is only about 3 years old. I have not inspected the pump itself, as it's in about two feet of water. I assume it has just developed some leakage current and will need to be replaced. But I'd really like to have a better understanding of what's happening. This does not seem like a normal life expectancy for this type of equipment. Any thoughts?? The water is starting to turn green and I've got to get it working.

Thanks,
John
 
qcroanoke

qcroanoke

Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
Location
Roanoke, VA.
Occupation
Sorta retired........
I feel like you've already done this but, did you unplug the pump to see if
the gfi would hold without it in the circuit? You've replaced the timer but the timer motor could be the culprit.Also try taking the timer out of the circuit and
plugging the pump directly into the gfi to see what happens. If it kicks,well,
you know it's the pump.
 
P

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
hockeyoligist2 said:
Before you go out and buy one I would check the intake. If trash has built up it may just need cleaning. I run into this very often.
Click to expand...

why would that cause a gfi to trip?

besides, once a pump starts tripping a gfi the only answer is to replace it.
 
J

JES2727

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Today I cleaned the intake to the pump, and removed the time clock from the circuit. 30 minutes later it tripped. Looks like I'm buiying a new pump.....

John
 
GUNNING

GUNNING

Senior Member
Location
Gainesville, Florida
It might be the cord. The insullation goes on those things or maybe a pinch or bite got it. Either way its replacement time. There is a 3m epoxy splice kit if you can find the bad spot or spots. One way to tell is to open the cord in the middle or near the damaged spot and see if the kraft paper is wet. I would personally prefer to sell them a new fountain, less time involved and you are sure of a better payoff. On the high dollar fountains there are repair options available. I have seen this done well and not so well. Better off replacing this one.
 
J

JES2727

Senior Member
Location
NJ
GUNNING said:
It might be the cord. The insullation goes on those things or maybe a pinch or bite got it. Either way its replacement time. There is a 3m epoxy splice kit if you can find the bad spot or spots. One way to tell is to open the cord in the middle or near the damaged spot and see if the kraft paper is wet. I would personally prefer to sell them a new fountain, less time involved and you are sure of a better payoff. On the high dollar fountains there are repair options available. I have seen this done well and not so well. Better off replacing this one.
Click to expand...

I've done a visual inspection of the cord and found no obvious trouble spots. I agree, it is time to find a replacement. I've wasted enough time troubleshooting this. Thanks to all for the advice.

John
 
7

77401

Banned
Location
South of the Border in Houston, Texas
George
Its not what it sounds like to you, its experience and statistical odds. You'll find that 95 % of old pumps (especially cheap from the big box stores) fail & trip GFI's.
You cannot fairly spend your good customers money trouble shooting, trying to learn for your own personal experiences, "Why" the pump over heated, "WHY" the GFCI is tripping. WHY would you spend 2 to three hours on WHY when for a new pump & an hour it?s replaced & new?
This is a serviceman mentality, not for the I want to learn WHY its happening apprentice.
 
J

JES2727

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Biff,
The pump is 3 years old. It runs for 12 hours a day, and only during the summer months. I do not consider this "old". It is not a cheap pump, and it was not purchased at the local big box store. It should not be due for replacement. It seems only reasonable to me to investigate the other components before investing in a new pump. In fact, any other course of action would be unfair to my customer. I wasn't "trying to learn for my own personal experience". I was making sure I wasn't wasting my customers money on a pump if they didn't need one. This is a professional mentality, not for the " I don't know what's wrong, and I don't care" parts changer.

Thanks anyway,

John
 
H

haskindm

Senior Member
Location
Maryland
Troubleshooting should take all of 2.5 minutes. Check GFCI to make sure that it is not tripping prematurely or when no Ground Fault is present. This takes about 30-seconds with an inexpensive GFCI tester. If the GFCI is OK then the pump and/or cord is bad. Then it is up to the customer if they want you to send the pump to a motor repair facility or replace the pump. Unless this is an unusual pump, it will probably be better and cheaper and faster to just replace the pump. Give them the option of having the old pump rebuilt to keep as a "spare". Job done, send the bill.
 
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