I was wondering if anyone has a sample of a preventive maintenance program for industrial, or commercial work. From cleaning motor starters,Infrared Thermography, to marketing,i know there is so much more other types of maintenance work out there to do. I was just wondering what some guys have had success in. I am trying to avoid the school of hard knocks of buying expensive equipment and not using it, or working for nothing.I'm not really sure on how to charge for such work. Any input will be lots of help. Thanks
preventive maintenance program
- Thread starter khixxx
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Mission Viejo, CA
- Occupation
- Professional Electrical Engineer
Re: preventive maintenance program
NFPA 70B, Recommended Practice for Electrical Equipment Maintenance is not a bad start.
It is not a Code nor Standard so it is not "enforceable;" but it does give excellent advice with regard to general maintenance practices. It also gives good recommendations with regard to documentation that should be maintained.
NFPA 70B, Recommended Practice for Electrical Equipment Maintenance is not a bad start.
It is not a Code nor Standard so it is not "enforceable;" but it does give excellent advice with regard to general maintenance practices. It also gives good recommendations with regard to documentation that should be maintained.
Re: preventive maintenance program
I used to work for a contractor that had a couple preventive maintance accounts. One was every year we would go through and vacume out the switch gear and do a through cleaning to keep carbon tracing down. Another one they had was at a hotel where once a year we would go through and take all the panel covers off and do a thermoscan. Now after I do a large job with lots of gear and stuff I talk to the owner and let them know that after a year it is a good ideal to have us go through and tighten everything up along with a thermoscan.
I used to work for a contractor that had a couple preventive maintance accounts. One was every year we would go through and vacume out the switch gear and do a through cleaning to keep carbon tracing down. Another one they had was at a hotel where once a year we would go through and take all the panel covers off and do a thermoscan. Now after I do a large job with lots of gear and stuff I talk to the owner and let them know that after a year it is a good ideal to have us go through and tighten everything up along with a thermoscan.
southernboys
Senior Member
Re: preventive maintenance program
if you have aluminum wire as your feeders to your subpanels or anywheres else try to tighting those connections every 6 months also whild doing this add some nolax
if you have aluminum wire as your feeders to your subpanels or anywheres else try to tighting those connections every 6 months also whild doing this add some nolax
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Leesburg, VA
Re: preventive maintenance program
Tightening connections every 6 months is NOT A GOOOD IDEA. With some connections and with standard wrenches (in lieu of a torque wrench), it is possible to damage the conductors by driving the Allen set through the conductors or over torquing a bolt to a point where the bolt is stressed and can fail under fault conditions.
As for maintenance programs if you would like a Scope of services for EPMs, and IR email me privately and I will send you a copy of the scope of services we utilize.
A variety of test equipment is required to adequately perform maintenance; this is not a TIGHTEN UP as some contractors refer to this work. But a program of inspection, testing, cleaning, lubricating and servicing equipment in an approved manner.
Tightening connections every 6 months is NOT A GOOOD IDEA. With some connections and with standard wrenches (in lieu of a torque wrench), it is possible to damage the conductors by driving the Allen set through the conductors or over torquing a bolt to a point where the bolt is stressed and can fail under fault conditions.
As for maintenance programs if you would like a Scope of services for EPMs, and IR email me privately and I will send you a copy of the scope of services we utilize.
A variety of test equipment is required to adequately perform maintenance; this is not a TIGHTEN UP as some contractors refer to this work. But a program of inspection, testing, cleaning, lubricating and servicing equipment in an approved manner.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: preventive maintenance program
IMHO, the most important part of PM of electrical equipment is probably visual inspection and vacuuming. Neither requires expensive gadgets, but a good up close look-see is really something that needs to be done now and then.
IR gadgets are a good tool so you can find hot connections and warm CBs, but are often difficult to interpret. The fact is that many connections tend to be a bit warm, and thats normal. You need to get proper training if you want to use this type of thing effectively. The other problem with this type of thing is that typically PM is performed during off hours. It seems likely that you will not get worst case situation when all the equipment is shut off.
Used to be that re-tightening of connections was something that was widely recommended but rarely actually done. These days it tends to be frowned on unless there is a problem, and then you should use a torque wrench and be selective in what you re-tighten. This requires some judgement, rather than a long list of things that should just be re-tightened.
IMHO, the most important part of PM of electrical equipment is probably visual inspection and vacuuming. Neither requires expensive gadgets, but a good up close look-see is really something that needs to be done now and then.
IR gadgets are a good tool so you can find hot connections and warm CBs, but are often difficult to interpret. The fact is that many connections tend to be a bit warm, and thats normal. You need to get proper training if you want to use this type of thing effectively. The other problem with this type of thing is that typically PM is performed during off hours. It seems likely that you will not get worst case situation when all the equipment is shut off.
Used to be that re-tightening of connections was something that was widely recommended but rarely actually done. These days it tends to be frowned on unless there is a problem, and then you should use a torque wrench and be selective in what you re-tighten. This requires some judgement, rather than a long list of things that should just be re-tightened.
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Leesburg, VA
Re: preventive maintenance program
IR's are performed during normal business hours. Proper training is a must otherwise we could just let laborers do electric work, we have never had problems with interpreting IR pictures, temperature is a product of ambient, current and type of distribution equipmnet being scanned
In addition during an IR scan the tech is doing a visual looking for code violations and wiring errors.
With all PM services visuals are the most important IMO.
IR's are performed during normal business hours. Proper training is a must otherwise we could just let laborers do electric work, we have never had problems with interpreting IR pictures, temperature is a product of ambient, current and type of distribution equipmnet being scanned
In addition during an IR scan the tech is doing a visual looking for code violations and wiring errors.
With all PM services visuals are the most important IMO.
Re: preventive maintenance program
Most important thing with PM systems, Predictive maintenance systems, IR, Vibration any of those, is trending. You can't waltz in with IR or vibration analysis or something and go Oh that's bad. I've seen to many times where something was replaced and it actually looked worse on the IR or Vibration. Unless it is totally obvious that there is a problem and that requires experience on the interpreters part, then just because it's a little warm or level a little high doesn't mean replace it right away it's going to fail tomorrow. Sometimes you just need to start checking it more often. Trending is the key.
Also don't tunnel in on something all by itself. Look at the surrounding area for things that may influence your indications also.
Most important thing with PM systems, Predictive maintenance systems, IR, Vibration any of those, is trending. You can't waltz in with IR or vibration analysis or something and go Oh that's bad. I've seen to many times where something was replaced and it actually looked worse on the IR or Vibration. Unless it is totally obvious that there is a problem and that requires experience on the interpreters part, then just because it's a little warm or level a little high doesn't mean replace it right away it's going to fail tomorrow. Sometimes you just need to start checking it more often. Trending is the key.
Also don't tunnel in on something all by itself. Look at the surrounding area for things that may influence your indications also.
highkvoltage
Senior Member
Re: preventive maintenance program
Big John preforming the tests that you are describing would take a lot longer than it use to with the new Arc Flash regulations. I know there is no way around when you would want to preform these test because to get an accurate thermo test data you would wanted to preform the test while a company was at or near full production. I have just doubled the amount of testing time it use to take.
Big John preforming the tests that you are describing would take a lot longer than it use to with the new Arc Flash regulations. I know there is no way around when you would want to preform these test because to get an accurate thermo test data you would wanted to preform the test while a company was at or near full production. I have just doubled the amount of testing time it use to take.
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Leesburg, VA
Re: preventive maintenance program
69boss302
Don't want to beat a dead horse BUT IF you know what you are doing, then problem as you describe are not an issue. Training, education, qualified.
Amperage in relation to temperature and taking ambient into account, contact resistance measurements prior to and after repair or replacing.
69boss302
Don't want to beat a dead horse BUT IF you know what you are doing, then problem as you describe are not an issue. Training, education, qualified.
Amperage in relation to temperature and taking ambient into account, contact resistance measurements prior to and after repair or replacing.
friebel
Senior Member
- Location
- Pennsville, N.J.
Re: preventive maintenance program
To: khixxx
I worked for a large chemical company for many years, and early on we always had a good PM program.
Today, I am seeing a different picture with this same company. With the influx of new and inexperienced electrical engineers, the philosophy today is, run it till it fails .
The main reason for this thinking, is the pressures from management above to keep cost down.
With all of that said, I firmly believe that what you need is a good experienced person who knows what they are doing to implement a good cost-effective PM program.
For example, I firmly believe in having a infrared thermography check of all of your critical equipment, especially on the Line-side of your equipment. I could go on and on, but again, what you really need is a person who has the expertise to guide you in a cost effective manner for a PM program.
If you are able to do this, I am confident that you would be able to sell your PM progam to a reponsible Company.
To: khixxx
I worked for a large chemical company for many years, and early on we always had a good PM program.
Today, I am seeing a different picture with this same company. With the influx of new and inexperienced electrical engineers, the philosophy today is, run it till it fails .
The main reason for this thinking, is the pressures from management above to keep cost down.
With all of that said, I firmly believe that what you need is a good experienced person who knows what they are doing to implement a good cost-effective PM program.
For example, I firmly believe in having a infrared thermography check of all of your critical equipment, especially on the Line-side of your equipment. I could go on and on, but again, what you really need is a person who has the expertise to guide you in a cost effective manner for a PM program.
If you are able to do this, I am confident that you would be able to sell your PM progam to a reponsible Company.
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Leesburg, VA
Re: preventive maintenance program
Friebel:
case in point that chemical plant in Texas that had a fire and was shut down earlier this year. I heard on the news on Thursday that due to the poor condition of the plant from a lack of maintenance, it is unlikely the plant will open again.
Of course they might pay the inspectors off,,,nah that never happens....Just kiddin folks
Friebel:
case in point that chemical plant in Texas that had a fire and was shut down earlier this year. I heard on the news on Thursday that due to the poor condition of the plant from a lack of maintenance, it is unlikely the plant will open again.
Of course they might pay the inspectors off,,,nah that never happens....Just kiddin folks
Re: preventive maintenance program
Brian John: Yes training, education and qualification most important. Plant I just left though, as soon as there seemed to be a problem, they would call in a contractor, unfamiliar with the equipment to take vibration readings and IR. Actually the funniest thing I ever saw happened there once. The contracted technician took vibration readings and IR on the equipment while it was off and said that it needed to have a new motor right away or it would fail. HMMM you say. Trust, true story. You would not believe some of the things I have run into.
To many sales pitches to management bean counters. Sure I can walk into any facility and say oh it has to be replaced or it will fail. Give them numbers and pictures and they have no idea what they are looking at, just tell them it will save them money.
You need the experienced guy there, trained and qualified anyway going along with the contracted technician. Who is opening up the panels for him, is he following NFPA 70E, How does he know which motor to check.
That contractor justifies his existence by finding problems, and yes anywhere you go you can find plenty of problems especially with IR. And yes you can make it appear like there are problems if you just play with the emistivity enough.
This is why I say trending is the most important thing, and knowledge of what you are looking at. OK I'll shut up now.
Brian John: Yes training, education and qualification most important. Plant I just left though, as soon as there seemed to be a problem, they would call in a contractor, unfamiliar with the equipment to take vibration readings and IR. Actually the funniest thing I ever saw happened there once. The contracted technician took vibration readings and IR on the equipment while it was off and said that it needed to have a new motor right away or it would fail. HMMM you say. Trust, true story. You would not believe some of the things I have run into.
To many sales pitches to management bean counters. Sure I can walk into any facility and say oh it has to be replaced or it will fail. Give them numbers and pictures and they have no idea what they are looking at, just tell them it will save them money.
You need the experienced guy there, trained and qualified anyway going along with the contracted technician. Who is opening up the panels for him, is he following NFPA 70E, How does he know which motor to check.
That contractor justifies his existence by finding problems, and yes anywhere you go you can find plenty of problems especially with IR. And yes you can make it appear like there are problems if you just play with the emistivity enough.
This is why I say trending is the most important thing, and knowledge of what you are looking at. OK I'll shut up now.
zog
Senior Member
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
Re: preventive maintenance program
www.netaworld.org has a free download of recommended intervals for maintenance testing. NETA has spent alot of time and money in development of this Relibiliy Centered Maintenance program, evaluating different conditions and equipment types.
www.netaworld.org has a free download of recommended intervals for maintenance testing. NETA has spent alot of time and money in development of this Relibiliy Centered Maintenance program, evaluating different conditions and equipment types.
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