Powewall battery by Tesla

[PVfarmer]

wow, these VBR batteries are pretty cool.

wow, these VBR batteries are pretty cool.

Yes, but understand that's your "nameplate" capacity. If you sucked every last erg out of the batteries on the first go, you'd destroy them. Effective capacity also depends on how fast you pull energy out. IIRC, in the end your 48kwh storage unit can probably deliver a total of 24kwh, and limited to about 500 watts. That's ball park, someone here may be a real battery guru and put some more solid numbers on it.

Howdy, check this out.

Lifeline AGM Batteries bring industry leading performance, and it's powered by the lowest Peukert Rating on the market. To our knowledge, no other AGM battery manufacturer can test their batteries to these rating, repeatedly.
Click here for a complete Lifeline AGM Battery life cycle discussion.
or here first:
http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/selfdischarge.php

BUT!!

For those of you new to the topic, flow batteries work by the interaction between two liquids flowing in parallel, typically separated by a membrane (some next-gen flow batteries ditch the membrane).
Compared to their lead-acid and lithium-ion cousins, flow batteries are relatively inexpensive to scale up because the basic infrastructure consists mainly of tanks and pumps.
Flow batteries also complement intermittent sources like wind and solar, because they can sit idle for long periods of time without losing their charge and kick into gear quickly when needed.
Both of those factors dovetail with the Obama Administration?s push to get more wind and solar power into the grid, so it?s little wonder that the Department of Energy is pursuing new vanadium flow battery technology on several fronts.
http://cleantechnica.com/2014/04/29/floodgates-open-vanadium-flow-batteries/

:?:blink:hmy:

New York City?s Metropolitan Transit Authority is one of the largest single users of energy in the US, and today the agency is officially launching a next-generation energy storage system that is bound to turn heads. MTA has installed three CellCube vanadium flow batteries on the 25th floor setback of its lower Manhattan headquarters to demonstrate how small footprint, high volume on site energy storage systems can shave down peak electricity use and turn a ?smart? building into a brilliant one.
http://cleantechnica.com/2014/04/23/exceptional-step-forward-energy-storage-new-york-city/

(last April)

On Wednesday, New York City?s Metropolitan Transit Authority (MTA), which suffered its own Sandy-related shutdown, announced one of the city?s biggest energy storage projects to date: a 400 kilowatt-hour array of CellCube vanadium redox flow batteries at its new facility at 2 Broadway in downtown Manhattan.
The demonstration project features the first U.S. installation for the CellCube, built by Germany?s Gildemeister and brokered by Canadian partner American Vanadium. Partners including the New York State Research and Development Authority (NYSERDA) and utility Consolidated Edison are also involved, looking to test how multi-hour, modular storage systems like the CellCube can serve multiple tasks for the MTA and for the grid at large.
?The prime [question] is how these batteries can help customers make money by flattening their peak load curves,? Bill Radvak, CEO of American Vanadium, said in an interview this week. "Demand charge mitigation," the term used to describe this business case for building-side energy storage, is the rationale of energy storage companies like Stem, Green Charge Networks, Coda Energy and SolarCity in their commercial projects to date.
http://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...y-Brings-Energy-Storage-to-New-York-Citys-MTA

NOT EXPLODING = always a good thing!


As renewables become a larger share of the generation mix, the only solution going forward is cost effective energy storage. The global market demand for storage is estimated to be greater than $10B by 2020. However, the main challenge is that we still do not have a low-cost, safe, and highly durable means to store electricity that will enable ubiquitous storage.
WattJoule is addressing this huge market opportunity. We are developing a game-changing energy storage system that utilizes a liquid to store electrical energy ? a liquid that is over 60% water, inexpensive to manufacture in large quantities, and is highly durable. And, since it?s based on water, it can never catch fire or explode like other approaches.
http://www.wattjoule.com/

Impact Summary:
If successful, ITN's vanadium redox flow battery would provide storage capacity for residential and small-scale commercial applications at a cost approaching $1,000 per unit, compared to the $4,000+ price point of today's systems.
http://arpa-e.energy.gov/?q=slick-sheet-project/advanced-vanadium-redox-flow-battery

 

[caribconsult]

Economic and intelligent use of a solar system tells you to minimize your electric load. Devices that can be run on gas, like stoves, hot water heaters, and clothes dryers, should be used, since any one of those on electricity can drain out a battery, no matter who's brand it is. If you are talking about a single PW with perhaps 20 panels or so, you need to get your house consumption down to around 12-13Kwh per day, or you'll be buying quite a bit of power from the grid. We live in the tropics, we get about as good a solar day as you can, and if it's a typical sunny day we can run entirely on the sun, but some days, there's not much or any sun, just overcast and cloudy, perhaps rainy. We wind up buying about 4Kwh from the grid and that charges our single PW up sufficiently to carry us through the night and into the AM, make coffee and watch TV, and pray for sun. Since we live up in the mountains,it's much cooler and we don't have air conditioning. That makes all the difference. If we had just a bedroom unit, we'd probably need a 2nd PW and another 12-13 panels to charge both of them.

 

[caribconsult]

Hi,

I was wondering if I could get some thoughts on the new Powerwall battery by Tesla?

I was wondering if anybody knew if the 10kwh rating means it can provide that without 100% discharge and damaging the battery? Ive heard people saying that it will be able to charge during the night and then discharge to meet the load during the day without receiving power from the grid. I am thinking that this type of control must be within the inverter and not the battery. Does anybody know?

Anybody know what model inverter is compatible with this battery yet?

Discharging the battery to anything near 0% will likely cause the Tesla to shut down, and it can be tricky to restart it, so you want avoid that at all costs. You can charge your battery at night if you open the grid feed to the system, but what 's the point? You should be gathering all the sunlight you can during the day, charging the battery and running your house, and let the Tesla carry you from sundown to sunrise, otherwise you're paying for electricity you already have in the battery. We run full time on the battery and the only time we open the grid feed is if we're approaching sundown and there's been little to no sun that day. We'll let it run off the grid for about two hours, that will run the house and charge the battery to nearly full, and then we switch off the grid and run the rest of the night on battery and there's enough to carry us into the morning, make coffee, watch the news, and by around 9:30 the sun is above the trees and the battery is charging from sun and the house is running on the PV's.

 

[GoldDigger]

I was surprised when I learned that Niagara Falls was primarily generating power during the day (high priced) based on the water they pumped up the falls at night (low price). I guess that is pumped water storage (energy) and this is a similar concept, but in chemistry.

FWIW, the efficiency of pumped water storage for electric power is at best 50%.