Pool pump tripping

[Steed]

Hello everyone been reading on this site for a while figured some of you might be the people to lend some valuable input.

This is in a hotel. There are 4 pumps total. All fed from a 400a GE B/O 208 3 phase can.

All breakers are GFCI 2 pole 20's.

These pumps have been running no issue until 2 days ago where ONE started tripping its breaker. Pool guys just replaced the pump that day.

The pool guys are swearing its not on their end. I have capped the feeds in the motor and the breaker will remain on, it is only tripping when the motor rev's up.

The pool pumps are hayward 1.5HP 115/230v

We have swapped this pump onto multiple other breakers as well as swapped out the whip, still the same result.

After speaking to hayward tech support they have told me my best route is to replace all my GE equipment with Siemens OR remove the GFCI.

I am no engineer, but to my knowledge all ground fault interrupting ratings on breakers are the same no matter the manufacturer. I do not see what is special about Siemens.

What gets me is that the other 3 identical pumps with identical breakers have zero issue.(all located in the same load center)

The owner of the pool company is siding with the manufacturer recommending we change out all related service equipment.

Any ideas?

 

[Jraef]

It's a known issue with GFI protection on pool motors, and the general consensus is that for some reason, Siemens GFI breakers are better able to hold in on pool pump motors that other brands. Most pool equipment motor suppliers will tell you the same thing, some even print it in their manuals. It's been discussed in this forum (and others) several times in the past.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I assume by "we" you mean the company you work for...

For a manufacturer to tell you to change out the equipment is totally outrageous. If you want to appease him you can probably install a dp gfci siemens in the panel and show that is not the issue.

The pump is the problem and they need to fix it. It sounds like this particu;lar pump is tripping a gfci where another pump runs fine on.... If so it is their issue. Ask him if you change the service and that doesn't fix the issue are they going to pay for the service change. I bet they won't agree to that

 

[mopowr steve]

I would have to agree with Dennis.

Have them give you another motor, could be a defect in the new motor especially when enamel on the windings is that thin anything could of happened durring winding. Or if it has a capacitor that could be defective also.

Defective things aren't unheard of!

 

[ActionDave]

..... Pool guys just replaced the pump that day.

Replaced the motor and pump or just the motor?

The pool guys are swearing its not on their end. I have capped the feeds in the motor and the breaker will remain on, it is only tripping when the motor rev's up.


Any ideas?

So it doesn't sound like a circuit problem or a ground fault in the motor. Did anybody check amps on the motor? make sure the windings are configured properly? Is it a cap start motor or permanent split?

 

[cpinetree]

We have run in to this on the variable speed Hayward pumps.

The simplest fix is to feed a 2 circuit Siemens disconnect with a GE 2 pole non GFI breaker and install the Siemens GFCI breaker in the disconnect.

For what it is worth we (our shop), agree it is a manufacturer issue, but after changing pumps on a few jobs and having upset customers (pool company and their customers) We have just went the route of least resistance and installed Siemens disconnects. :weeping:

Note: It is not just GE GFCI's, we have run into it on all other manufacturers GFCI's as well. The Square D QO line does generally work but there has been 1 or 2 in the last year that won't hold, and magically the Siemens will.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If you are under the 2011 you could install a dp 25 non gfci breaker and you would be compliant. I would not do this but it would be code compliant

 

[cpinetree]

If you are under the 2011 you could install a dp 25 non gfci breaker and you would be compliant. I would not do this but it would be code compliant

Check the pump documentation before doing this, we just did a 3hp variable speed pump and it said to use a 20 amp breaker.

 

[Steed]

Thank you everyone for the feedback.

I spent some time talking to the manufacturer(Hayward) today and discovered that the pool guys I was dealing with were not distributors or certified warranty techs, so I can only assume that is why the owner was so adamant about the issue being on the electrical side of things.

The manufacture(Hayward) got in contact with the pool company and figured something out so that they are willing to send out another pump being a tristar series rather than the ecostar currently present. They tell me it is a lower total horse power unit.

I spoke to Haywards New England rep trying to find the actual cause of the problem and all he could tell me is that Siemens works better and he can't explain it which doesn't settle well for me.

This rep also made it aware to me that they are not required to put in writing that only Siemens breakers are guaranteed to work as "sometimes" other brands work. He also told me that he knows of no issues with GE GFCI breakers and Hayward equipment in ME, NH, CT, and RI, only in MA. That does not make any sense to me.

So as it stands a new pump will be sent out and installed under warranty. But Hayward will not guarantee the new pump will work the the GE equipment present, and should it not they tell me they would have done all they can and the rest falls on me.

I just can't believe a company can sell a product that "sometimes" works with every breaker manufacturer except for one without clearly listing that in their paperwork. We have lots of these units in many commercial properties, after this ordeal I can guarantee if another pump fails we will not install Hayward equipment or they can simply hire another company... Who would want to put their name on that product?