Alwayslearningelec
Senior Member
- Location
- NJ
- Occupation
- Estimator
I think that the problem is that most of the time they don't have a clue what they're paying for. A designer comes up with nonsense like Power Notes 2 and someone is paying for something that will not have any impact on the quality of the build. There is no reason to have a pull box after two 90° bends other than to waste money.The customer can have whatever extras he is willing to pay for.
I strongly second that.I think that the problem is that most of the time they don't have a clue what they're paying for.
That happens quite a bit. Some jobs no one checks and you get away with it other jobs you rip it our and start over. We had a job where they spec'd all #10 solid. They decided to pull #10 stranded for all of the lighting and after 4 floors that got caught and had to rip it all out.After the contract is awarded VE can be addressed but I have seen contractors busted when not following the specs.
One particular project the bid documents (specs) called for steel compression EMT fittings, the contractor that won the project got a few months into the project using setscrew and had to change all they had installed
Why on earth would someone spec this? Any idea what the reasoning was?That happens quite a bit. Some jobs no one checks and you get away with it other jobs you rip it our and start over. We had a job where they spec'd all #10 solid. They decided to pull #10 stranded for all of the lighting and after 4 floors that got caught and had to rip it all out.
Remember that you don't have to use a pull box and can pull right thru it assuming the entries are reasonably aligned.Doesn't this pullbox requirement seem excessive? I've seen it before for low voltage( cat 6 etc.) but not power.
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If I remember correctly it had something to do with a spec from Lutron that they required only solid conductors up to #10. We still see spec's to this day which state only solid conductors up to and including #10.Why on earth would someone spec this? Any idea what the reasoning was?
Wow. Sure they hd to submit them for approval. Someone didn't follow/read the spec. Maybe both the PM and engineer.After the contract is awarded VE can be addressed but I have seen contractors busted when not following the specs.
One particular project the bid documents (specs) called for steel compression EMT fittings, the contractor that won the project got a few months into the project using setscrew and had to change all they had installed
It's the standard spec in the Southeast.We still see spec's to this day which state only solid conductors up to and including #10.
How is that a problem?I think that the problem is that most of the time they don't have a clue what they're paying for.
I see that all the time. Is there an issue using stranded for #10 and smaller? Why would you want to use stranded over solid for these sizes? Easier to work with?If I remember correctly it had something to do with a spec from Lutron that they required only solid conductors up to #10. We still see spec's to this day which state only solid conductors up to and including #10.
It obviously a problem for the person paying for it when it adds zero extra value to the installation.How is that a problem?
You have all kinds of crazy stuff electricians do that serve no real purpose like using rigid over EMT, copper over aluminum, adding ground wires where metallic raceways already exist, etc. none of these things adds value. Just cost
Yes stranded, especially #10 which is typically used for homeruns, is far easier to work with. IMO #10 solid should be banned in raceways.I see that all the time. Is there an issue using stranded for #10 and smaller? Why would you want to use stranded over solid for these sizes? Easier to work with?
Besides the Lutron thing have you heard why the engineers are staying with specifiying solid conductors for #10 and smaller? Termination reliability?Yes stranded, especially #10 which is typically used for homeruns, is far easier to work with. IMO #10 solid should be banned in raceways.
The code should not be making design choices.Yes stranded, especially #10 which is typically used for homeruns, is far easier to work with. IMO #10 solid should be banned in raceways.
Then why not permit #8 or #6 solid in raceways? The issue is that solid conductors are more likely to be damaged when installed in a raceway. Having installed miles of both #10 solid and #10 stranded I'll keep with my opinion regarding #10 solid.The code should not be making design choices.