electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Are your SURE, there is a SOUSE label on it? Are you sure you dont want to go look again wink wink....... 
Only suitable for use as service equipment?
- Thread starter ggunn
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Typically combination style devices, like meter mains, that get theses labels.
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
Since it is almost impossible to have a meter main not be service equipment, the SOUSE designation does not limit their use in any way, and allows cheaper construction.
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Well not exactly. Granted it's not super common, but What about refeeding a existing structure that has a meter main from another location? We had to do this for a PV system last Summer. Existing meter man on the house, we installed a pedestal for a new meter between the house and the ground Mount array. Fortunately we were able to use 230.40 exception number three and just put a bypass plate on the meter socket at the house, but there are other situations where it would have needed to be changed to a feeder.
Since it is almost impossible to have a meter main not be service equipment, the SOUSE designation does not limit their use
ggunn
PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
- Location
- Austin, TX, USA
- Occupation
- Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
This happens and it's not the first time it has happened to us.
ggunn
PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
- Location
- Austin, TX, USA
- Occupation
- Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
I wish this were a residential system; if it were we could solve it pretty easily/cheaply. This is a 700kW PV system for a 2000A service.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
If the MDP is after the service disconnect you must have separate grounded and equipment grounding conductors there.
Suitable only for use as service equipment basically is something that has the grounded conductor permanently attached to the cabinet and has no provision to isolate the two, where "suitable for use as service equipment" typically has an grounded conductor bus that is insulated from the cabinet, yet typically includes a bonding jumper (often just a screw) that can be field installed or removed to bond it to the cabinet.
wwhitney
Senior Member
- Location
- Berkeley, CA
- Occupation
- Retired
Any chance the POCO will give you a separate service drop and meter for the PV (with virtual net metering or whatever is applicable depending on the tariffs), allowing you to not touch the customer-owned equipment on the existing service at all?
Cheers, Wayne
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Yeah that really sucks, it's almost criminal that they are making you bring that switchboard up to current code. I could understand maybe not allowing you to interconnect the PV in there, adding another switch but if you don't even have to touch it.......
Yeah I'm thinking your best course might be talking to the manufacturer and or getting a UL field aval to legally get around the SOUSE classification.
Strathead
Senior Member
- Location
- Ocala, Florida, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
As far as I know, the service disconnect is ocpd. A switch before the ocpd isn’t the service disconnect and the neutral ground bond is still in the panel.250.142(B) has a few exceptions, one is for "meter enclosures" but unfortunately that is as close as you will get
I thought I had a loophole: installing a service disconnect only (NF safety switch, no overcurrent protection), so your MDP would still be service equipment as it is your overcurrent protection, but unfortunately the wording is such that the N- G must be separated after the "service disconnect", not "service equipment"
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
There is nothing prohibiting a service disconnect without ocpd and having your 239.90 over current protection in a separate enclosure. See 230.94.
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Granted with a NF disconnect you are stuck with a 10K SCCR....... I imagine you can get a bolted pressure switch non-fused?
ggunn
PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
- Location
- Austin, TX, USA
- Occupation
- Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
Unfortunately, I do not believe that the MLO panel has a provision to install a main breaker. It's worth checking out, though.
Strathead
Senior Member
- Location
- Ocala, Florida, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
230.79 indicates that the service disconnecting means has an overcurrent rating. 230.91 indicates that
“The service overcurrent device shall be an integral part of the service disconnecting means or shall be located immediately adjacent thereto” as in fuses.
Once again a person here is splitting hairs and your hair splitting isn’t applicable to or contributing to the subject from the OP. Nor is it applicable to the post I commented on. A switch in front of a circuit breaker or a fused disconnect IS NOT a service disconnect and it doesn’t negate the requirement to bond the neutral and ground in the actual service disconnect. That is the meat of this thread.
ggunn
PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
- Location
- Austin, TX, USA
- Occupation
- Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
I appreciate your contribution to the thread, but the ultimate arbiter in the situation will be the AHJ. I will ask questions of what the AHJ will allow and what the manufacturer of the panel will permit, and I will submit a design which is acceptable to them and as painless as possible for ourselves and the customer. My question was answered in post #2.
- Status