No existing bond for pool pump motor

[mark32]

Hello, recently I replaced a pool pump timer for an acquaintance and noticed the motor was not bonded. Should I leave it as is or do something about it? By the way, the motor is not double insulated. Thanks.

 

[raider1]

Re: No existing bond for pool pump motor

How well do you like this acquaintance?

I would never knowingly leave a dangerous situation.

Chris.

 

[jwelectric]

Re: No existing bond for pool pump motor

680.26 (B)(4) Where a double-insulated water-pump motor is installed under the provisions of this rule, a solid 8 AWG copper conductor that is of sufficient length to make a bonding connection to a replacement motor shall be extended from the bonding grid to an accessible point in the motor vicinity. Where there is no connection between the swimming pool bonding grid and the equipment grounding system for the premises, this bonding conductor shall be connected to the equipment grounding conductor of the motor circuit.

There should be a #8 somewhere around the motor. If you may need to do some searching or even some digging.
Let?s hope that you don?t have to install one.


[ September 28, 2005, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]

 

[mark32]

Re: No existing bond for pool pump motor

Thank you for the replies. It's an older house, built in the 70's I believe, so some odd things are abound (Due to additions made throughout the years). The next time I'm there I'll do some digging, but I'm not holding my breath on this discovery. This motor is a replacement, considering there is an older pump motor sitting three feet away from the now running one. That guy (Who installed it) should have taken care of this problem. If there is no bond wire, how would you remedy this situation? Thanks.

 

[jwelectric]

Re: No existing bond for pool pump motor

In 1975 section 680-22 required this motor to be bonded so I would say that over time something has happened to the bonding conductor.

I know that this sounds a little drastic but it is coming from the heart. Should you not be able to find the bonding conductor I would advise a good tamp, dump truck and a lot of dirt. What value can be put on a human life.

 

[mark32]

Re: No existing bond for pool pump motor

Thank you jwelectric, I agree fully that nothing compares with the value of a life. I will admit your remedy has left me puzzled though. Are you suggesting that the pool be filled in? If so, I like your sense of humor, however I don't think this acquaintance of mine would appreciate it as much as I do. Surely there is a more logical solution. As a last resort I guess I would recommend her buying a double insulated motor. Thanks again,
Mark

 

[jwelectric]

Re: No existing bond for pool pump motor

Originally posted by mark32:
Thank you jwelectric, I agree fully that nothing compares with the value of a life. I will admit your remedy has left me puzzled though. Are you suggesting that the pool be filled in? If so, I like your sense of humor, however I don't think this acquaintance of mine would appreciate it as much as I do. Surely there is a more logical solution. As a last resort I guess I would recommend her buying a double insulated motor. Thanks again,
Mark

Yes I was trying to have a ?sick? sense of humor. I would replace with a double insulated motor just to protect myself.

 

[macmikeman]

Re: No existing bond for pool pump motor

I would replace with a double insulated motor just to protect myself.

JW, thanks for an obvious idea that just never occured to me. I have been just walking away from jobs where I saw no bonding conductor coming up at the motors. I could tell the owners that it might be ok to replace the motors with double insulated type. Now if I could just figure out a cheaper way to deal with the stairs, diving boards, and concrete around the pool, I will be back in business on those.

 

[jwelectric]

Re: No existing bond for pool pump motor

If I am called to replace a pool motor then why am I messing with the ladder and other items for? I am there to replace the motor not build a pool.

When I install a new pool then I worry about all the other things being bonded.

 

[mark32]

Re: No existing bond for pool pump motor

Good morning, I just got off the phone with the owner of the house/pool in question. It turns out she had her handyman replace the motor about two years ago. Even though he's not an electrician, I'm sure if the old motor had a bond he would naturally have bonded this one as well. So who knows when and if there ever was a bond. I informed her on the potential dangers this situation posed and told her this could be taken care of by buying a new double insulated motor. Of course her reply was she doesn't have the money for it right now, but would let me know when this motor needs replacing. I tried, Mark

 

[haskindm]

Re: No existing bond for pool pump motor

You need to get this "friend" to sign a waiver that you have informed her of a potentially dangerous condition which she has opted to ignore. If someone gets hurt, your "friend" will be the first one to drag you into court. You need to CYA (and signing a waiver may make her realize that you are not kidding about the danger). If she can't afford to maintain the pool in a safe manner, perhaps filling it in is the best alternative. Can she afford a funeral for one of her children?

[ September 29, 2005, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: haskindm ]

 

[mark32]

Re: No existing bond for pool pump motor

Point well taken haskindm, I will get my hands on some waiver forms so I will be prepared the next time something like this happens, I'm sure it will. However, why would she go after me? Her handyman installed it, I only changed her timer. She's in constant contact with this handyman as she's always having something done on her house. (It's big and old) So if a problem ever arose, there he is. Nonetheless, I'll have her sign a waiver the next time I see her. Thanks again haskindm for such an important suggestion, Mark

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: No existing bond for pool pump motor

If you have to have a waiver signed because you pointed out a problem that has absolutely nothing to do with you and the person does not care to address the problem this country is even more screwed than I thought. :roll: Give me a break.

 

[petersonra]

Re: No existing bond for pool pump motor

as long as you performed no service for her, I see no liability. but I am not a lawyer, and these days you never know.

 

[mark32]

Re: No existing bond for pool pump motor

Scott, thanks for your post. I feel the same as you do. I am planning on starting my own business soon (Part time only), but stuff like this worry's the hell out of me. I don't like the feeling of being resposible for something I didn't even touch. I have a headache just thinking about it. Thanks buddy

 

[haskindm]

Re: No existing bond for pool pump motor

There is no such thing as being too careful when it comes to liability. I recently was sent a copy of a letter that was being circulated by a local bar association to trial lawyers. It was suggesting that there may be a case for action if an electrician does not SUGGEST to a homeowner that AFCI protection be installed on all circuits even though it is only required in the bedroom. There is no depth to which people will not sink, and "friends" can be your biggest problem. It costs nothing to add a name to a lawsuit. In the event that something happens at this pool, the handyman will be sued, the pump manufacturer, and anyone else they can think of. All that the homeowner has to say is that so and so electrician looked at my pump and did not mention any wiring problem. It will be your word against their's that you verbally informed them of the problem. CYA and get it in writing.
Just my two cents.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: No existing bond for pool pump motor

Lets hope the members of that group get colon cancer.

 

[26member]

Re: No existing bond for pool pump motor

I think that since the potential for death is so high and that this woman is having a handyman work on electrical projects /see qualified ,you should just tell her you feel compelled to inform the ahj
and that your not trying to solicit work but do not want to read about her death in the newspaper /hers or any of her loved ones

 

[jimwalker]

Re: No existing bond for pool pump motor

Your walking on thin ice.My first step would be to deleet every thing you just typed.Had you not noticed or known there was a violation you would been off the hook.But you did and you know.Your best way out now is to call the ahj.Yes you will loose her as a customer but you limit your liability this way.A point of law is any contract to brake a law is worthless

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: No existing bond for pool pump motor

Jim slow down. The person was doing a repair, saw a violation on something unrelated to the repair and told the customer. End of story.