New 4 way switch example

[ronaldrc]

I added another 4 way light switch example please check and make sure it is right.

http://home.comcast.net/~ronaldrc/wsb/html/view.cgi-image.html--SiteID-1516579.html


Thanks:Ronald

[ April 18, 2004, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: ronaldrc ]

 

[hurk27]

Re: New 4 way switch example

Hey Ronald I didn't Know that they made 12/2 NM with two black wires LOL

But nice drawing

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: New 4 way switch example

Hurk I see what u mean,Strange configuration but will work.So much easier to feed one end and switch the other.I call these wonder joints ( wonder if done right).When I was in the USAF we had a saying(K)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid (T)hink (I)t (T)hrough.,Today there are so many installers that simple 3/4/3 ways are hard enough.
Try to have them feed and switch from a 4 way location most just gawk at you and say HUH !!!!!!!This only adds to their confusion feed a light box and switch the 3/4/3 way from 3 way.

 

[iwire]

Re: New 4 way switch example

Ronald, my only comment would be to make clear that the 12/2 NM that Wayne mentioned has a remarked white, like you did for other wires in the graphic.

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: New 4 way switch example

Hey Bob and wayne

I really apreciate you checking that for me I went over it three or for times and I didn't catch that

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: New 4 way switch example

Ronald,
one more thing,
in the text, maybe it should read

"double pole SINGLE throw"?

instead of "...double throw."

Todd

edited to fix ronalds name.

[ April 18, 2004, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: luke warmwater ]

 

[hurk27]

Re: New 4 way switch example

Luke
A four-way switch is a double pole double throw. If you ever had the chance to use this same setup as a way to bump a motor in reverse with a DPDT it is wired the same way with a 4-way one set of terminals are not brought out and you only see the common's and one set of NO terminals inside of the switch there is a cross over from one of the contacts to the other like an X now put two dots on each side of that -X- and you will have the common terminals of a DPDT switch. Now just one side of the X is connected to the top terminals (one set of travleres) and the common's are connected to the bottom terminals (the other set of travelers)
Hope this helps since I can't draw the image

 

[stew]

Re: New 4 way switch example

I have often wondered why three ways are called three ways and four ways are called four ways instead of what they really are. Simply single pole double throw and double pole double throw switches. Where did the term three way on four way come from? These are of course only two way devices. hmmmm? A nice drawing of the connection of the line feeding from the lite. Not a new idea but a nice drawing nevertheless.

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: New 4 way switch example

Thanks to all for the feedback.

Wayne I'm sure glad you noticed that one piece of 12/2 with the two blacks.like I said I went over it about three times and didn't catch it.

Bob you where talking about its a lot easier to feed one switch and take the Light off the other switch I agree, I show most but not all the different ways to wire them in my examples.

Click on the Home if you go back again, it wouldn't hurt to have them checked to I'm sure I missed something on them to.

Thanks:Ronald

 

[iwire]

Re: New 4 way switch example

No problem and that is a great looking graphic.

Originally posted by ronaldrc:
Bob you where talking about its a lot easier to feed one switch and take the Light off the other switch I agree, I show most but not all the different ways to wire them in my examples.

? Do you mean Alan?

 

[hurk27]

Re: New 4 way switch example

No problem.
But Ronald can you do a drawing of a DPDT switch showing the whole switch with the cross over (like a motor reverser) then just add some text that says these terminals are not exposed on a four-way I think there are a few that don't understand a 4-way like this and this is what confuse's many that one set of terminals's are not exposed?

Any DPDT switch can be made into a 4-way. and any SPDT switch is already a 3-way.

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: New 4 way switch example

Wayne, I totally understand the fundamentals of single pole, double pole, 3-way, and 4-way, single throw and double throw switches, and I am not confused on how they operate.

I was not insinuating that they are even true dpst switches. I just don't agree that they are dpdt.
I understand what you are saying, I just do not totally agree.
You cannot pretend that there are terminals on the sides of a 4-way. They are not there.
There is no center off position, therefore it is not a double throw switch.
Up position may throw it one way, and down, another in an -x- pattern.
But as a DPDT switch can be made into a 4-way, my assertion is that a 4-way can not be made into a DPDT switch, unless you add the center common terminals and add a center off position.

Isn't it fascinating, that out of all of the switch manufacturer's that I checked, not One, refers to a 3-way or 4-way as a SPDT or a DPDT switch.
And on the other side, no SPDT or DPDT switches are referred to as 3-way or 4-way.

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: New 4 way switch example

I agree the fourway switch for a light is different from the standard double pole double throw switch it has 6 terminals.

Here is one of my examples using the switch for reversing direct current.

It would also reverse a motor by reversing the field winding.


http://home.comcast.net/~ronaldrc/wsb/html/view.cgi-image.html--SiteID-1521947.html

Ronald

[ April 20, 2004, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: ronaldrc ]

 

[stew]

Re: New 4 way switch example

Luke I respectfully disagree with your statement that a 2pdt must have a center off position. There are 2 types of 2pdt switches. one is just an on on an one is an on off on..They are both 2pdt ie: 2 circuits one just has an off position. Take a look at the Carling switch section in your good old Grainger book and specifically stock #2x468 2pdt on -on and 2x469 on off on.

[ April 19, 2004, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: stew ]

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: New 4 way switch example

Stew, you're right about the center off position. I don't have a current Gainger's book. The last one that I had was on CD but it got wiped off of my system when it crashed.
I'm just being difficult.
I don't like to refer to a standard 4-way snap switch as a DPDT.

 

[hurk27]

Re: New 4 way switch example

Stew There is also momentary on/off/momentary on both ways as in a jog switch and momentary on/off/on where it will stay on in one position but the other is momentary.

Luke while I do agree that the physical appearance of a 4-way is different, the way it works inside is just the same as a DPDT switch. If you ever had opened a 4-way up it has the same 4 contacts with the common between them. on a 4-way it is one set of these contacts that are available and the set of commons but your right you cannot use a 4-way in place of a DPDT if you wanted to switch between let's say two power sources. but a 4-way would work to reverse a motor or polarity as Ronald said. and even though the manufactures don't even say a 3-way is a SPDT, It is. I use to use a stack SP/3-way to control the off/on and the high/low speed of an exhaust fan as the 3-way will select between the black wire and the red wire on the motor. Probably wasn't code but it did work.

When I try to teach the workers how something works I try to show the whole circuit so they can understand what causes what in a circuit. If we just show a 4-way then they don't know what goes on inside of the 4-way and when it comes to trouble shooting they need to know what's suppose to happen when they flip a switch.

Ronald It will also reverse a three phase motor too by switching any two motor leads.

 

[iwire]

Re: New 4 way switch example

Originally posted by hurk27:
I use to use a stack SP/3-way to control the off/on and the high/low speed of an exhaust fan as the 3-way will select between the black wire and the red wire on the motor.

I have done the same thing.