nec 2020 code requirment ?

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wireman1

Senior Member
does the 2020 nec require a disconnect after the meter base for the fire company in the event of fires on the bldgs
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
there is a new requirement in 230.85 that applies to one and two family dwellings that requires a disconnect for emergency purposes to be installed at a readily accessible outdoor location. It can also be the service disconnecting means or it can be just a switch that is not the service disconnecting means. Needs to be marked accordingly and there is no mention of location relative to metering, just that there needs to be an outside disconnect for emergency purposes.

IMO it leaves some questions and I wouldn't be surprised to see changes in the next code to clear up some those questions.
 

Coppersmith

Senior Member
Location
Tampa, FL, USA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Long after I retire and probably after I'm dead, electricians doing panel changes will have a much easier time because they won't have to pull the meter.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
there is a new requirement in 230.85 that applies to one and two family dwellings that requires a disconnect for emergency purposes to be installed at a readily accessible outdoor location. It can also be the service disconnecting means or it can be just a switch that is not the service disconnecting means. Needs to be marked accordingly and there is no mention of location relative to metering, just that there needs to be an outside disconnect for emergency purposes.
Do you know if the main breaker in an exterior MDP will qualify? Austin Energy (where I am) has required an external disconnect for years and the MB in the MDP if it's externally mounted satisfies them.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Do you know if the main breaker in an exterior MDP will qualify? Austin Energy (where I am) has required an external disconnect for years and the MB in the MDP if it's externally mounted satisfies them.
I don't see why not. New code section does tell you how you must label it, so you will need to add "EMERGENCY DISCONNECT" to your usual SERVICE DISCONNECT labeling.
 

PaulMmn

Senior Member
Location
Union, KY, USA
Occupation
EIT - Engineer in Training, Lafayette College
I can see a new Halloween prank-- see how many breakers you can shut off before the cops show up! 👻
 

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
We see many of Our commercial customers that have this already.
meterbase combo panels like a MH uses should qualify the way I read it as long as its marked.
of course, it will probably be four or five years before we are on it...
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
We see many of Our commercial customers that have this already.
meterbase combo panels like a MH uses should qualify the way I read it as long as its marked.
of course, it will probably be four or five years before we are on it...
The thing that code leaves somewhat vague however is that if said disconnect meets criteria for a "service disconnecting means" then must one consider it to be the service disconnect and run your GES to that point as well as keep grounded and grounding conductors separated beyond that point? It is reasonably clear that an unfused switch is permitted to be used as this emergency disconnect but does not make it clear if you can use something that otherwise qualifies as a service disconnect yet place the service disconnect somewhere down stream from it.
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
I can see a new Halloween prank-- see how many breakers you can shut off before the cops show up! 👻

I have to say, every time I drive through a Mcdonalds drive thru I think about jumping out and pulling that big handle down. :p


JAP>
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The long wait is what triggers the want to jump out and pull the handle in the first place. :)

JAP>
Might as well plan on leaving after you pull that handle, your wait went from long to eternity.

Add: power going out is bad enough, the fact the computers went down potentially killed business for the rest of the day.:oops:
 

retirede

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Might as well plan on leaving after you pull that handle, your wait went from long to eternity.

Add: power going out is bad enough, the fact the computers went down potentially killed business for the rest of the day.:oops:

Pull the handle AFTER you receive your order. Problem solved.
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
We can tell by your responses you led a sheltered childhood K-wired.... :)

JAP>
 

shortcircuit2

Senior Member
Location
South of Bawstin
The thing that code leaves somewhat vague however is that if said disconnect meets criteria for a "service disconnecting means" then must one consider it to be the service disconnect and run your GES to that point as well as keep grounded and grounding conductors separated beyond that point?
Clear as mud, huh.

2020 NEC 230.85 option 3 appears to allow equipment that meets the criteria of a "service disconnecting means" and label it NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT and now it is not what it is and you can run 3-wires inside to a main breaker panel without separating the neutrals and grounds.

An option 3 disconnect meeting the criteria for a "service disconnecting means" must also comply with new 2020 section 250.25 and have a 250.24(B) Main Bonding Jumper and a 250.24(D) Grounding Electrode Conductor connected to grounding electrode(s) required by Part III of article 250.

Any clearer now? Not to me as now both inside and outside pieces of equipment will need to be connected to a GES.

Other interpretations needed.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Clear as mud, huh.

2020 NEC 230.85 option 3 appears to allow equipment that meets the criteria of a "service disconnecting means" and label it NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT and now it is not what it is and you can run 3-wires inside to a main breaker panel without separating the neutrals and grounds.

An option 3 disconnect meeting the criteria for a "service disconnecting means" must also comply with new 2020 section 250.25 and have a 250.24(B) Main Bonding Jumper and a 250.24(D) Grounding Electrode Conductor connected to grounding electrode(s) required by Part III of article 250.

Any clearer now? Not to me as now both inside and outside pieces of equipment will need to be connected to a GES.

Other interpretations needed.
Not sure what 250.25 is all about just yet. 250.24 (A)(1) I think is unchanged and has always let you land the GEC at any point between service drop/lateral and the service disconnecting means, which commonly allowed us to land it in a meter socket (where POCO will allow it). Emergency disconnect that is not the service disconnecting means would still be allowed to be a place where you can run the GEC as it is between the service drop/lateral and the service disconnecting means.

Maybe there is more to it than what I am seeing so far?
 
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