Inspector question
- Thread starter donniet
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jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Re: Inspector question
Maybe he does not want all those electrons to have to squeeze through a 15 amp breaker?
What reason did he give? Code reference?
No violation in your example.
Mike P.
Maybe he does not want all those electrons to have to squeeze through a 15 amp breaker?
What reason did he give? Code reference?
No violation in your example.
Mike P.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Inspector question
Not only is it legal but some might think it safer given the quality of some lamp cords.
Now if they are SA circuits or dedicated 20 then he is right
Not only is it legal but some might think it safer given the quality of some lamp cords.
Now if they are SA circuits or dedicated 20 then he is right
james_mcquade
Senior Member
Re: Inspector question
jimwalker,
pardon my ignorance, what is an sa circuit?
jimwalker,
pardon my ignorance, what is an sa circuit?
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Inspector question
small appliance
kitchen ,dining,nook receptacles
Also the bath receptacles are min 20 now
[ January 29, 2004, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
small appliance
kitchen ,dining,nook receptacles
Also the bath receptacles are min 20 now
[ January 29, 2004, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Inspector question
The purpose of the OCPD is to protect the cable. A 15 amp breaker can certainly provide adequate protection for a #12. However, you need to make sure the Equipment Grounding Conductor (EGC) is also a #12. A 15 amp circuit normally requires no more than a #14 for an EGC. But if you increase the size of the phase conductors, you must also increase the size of the EGC. Reference NEC 250.122(B).
The purpose of the OCPD is to protect the cable. A 15 amp breaker can certainly provide adequate protection for a #12. However, you need to make sure the Equipment Grounding Conductor (EGC) is also a #12. A 15 amp circuit normally requires no more than a #14 for an EGC. But if you increase the size of the phase conductors, you must also increase the size of the EGC. Reference NEC 250.122(B).
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
Re: Inspector question
Keep in mind there are four answers to a code question:
1. NEC Answer
2. AHJ Answer
3. Toms Answer
4. Truck answer.
The NEC allows 12 AWG on a 15 A CB, the wire is protected at its ampacity
The AHJ in this case does not
I say you may need to use a larger wire, sometimes for voltage drop, sometimes its for a stronger wire for pulling
And 12AWG is used if thats all you got.
Ask the AHJ to cite you a specific rule.
Keep in mind there are four answers to a code question:
1. NEC Answer
2. AHJ Answer
3. Toms Answer
4. Truck answer.
The NEC allows 12 AWG on a 15 A CB, the wire is protected at its ampacity
The AHJ in this case does not
I say you may need to use a larger wire, sometimes for voltage drop, sometimes its for a stronger wire for pulling
And 12AWG is used if thats all you got.
Ask the AHJ to cite you a specific rule.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Inspector question
Maybe one more answer.Some local AHJ have amendments that require nothing under 20 amp lighting circuits
Maybe one more answer.Some local AHJ have amendments that require nothing under 20 amp lighting circuits
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Inspector question
Roger read mine.If a local AHJ requires nothing under 20 amp circuits then he cant use a 15 amp breaker . :roll:
Roger read mine.If a local AHJ requires nothing under 20 amp circuits then he cant use a 15 amp breaker . :roll:
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Inspector question
Roger,EVERYTHING
Have i heard of it YES
Reason =local rule
Would you have a 20 amp circuit if it had a 15 amp breaker? NO
Would you have a 20 amp circuit if it had a 20 amp breaker? YES
BREAKER IS PART OF THE CIRCUIT
[ January 30, 2004, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
Roger,EVERYTHING
Have i heard of it YES
Reason =local rule
Would you have a 20 amp circuit if it had a 15 amp breaker? NO
Would you have a 20 amp circuit if it had a 20 amp breaker? YES
BREAKER IS PART OF THE CIRCUIT
[ January 30, 2004, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Re: Inspector question
Jim
Look at the definition of circuit breaker. My words: it opens the circuit. It is not part of the circuit. If so how would you AFCI protect an AFCI breaker?
Mike P.
Jim
Look at the definition of circuit breaker. My words: it opens the circuit. It is not part of the circuit. If so how would you AFCI protect an AFCI breaker?
Mike P.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Inspector question
Opening post
Opening post
From Jim
Jim, Where does it say anything about a 20 amp circuit?
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Inspector question
OK im sorry i miss read.
So he wanted a 15 amp circuit and used #12 and then the inspector was trying to force him into a 20 amp circuit.OK sorry guys i understand now.Please no eggs
[ January 30, 2004, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
OK im sorry i miss read.
So he wanted a 15 amp circuit and used #12 and then the inspector was trying to force him into a 20 amp circuit.OK sorry guys i understand now.Please no eggs
[ January 30, 2004, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Inspector question
I think the situation, as originally posted, leaves itself open for several interpretations. Here are three:
</font>
In all three of these possible interpretations, the Inspector could not have justified the action on the basis of any NEC requirement.
I think the situation, as originally posted, leaves itself open for several interpretations. Here are three:
</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">* The Inspector wanted to force the installer to replace the 15 amp breaker with a 20 amp breaker, and would allow the #12 to remain.
* The Inspector wanted to force the installer to replace the #12 wire with #14 wire, and would allow the 15 amp breaker to remain.
* The Inspector was willing to accept either of the above two choices, but would not allow a 15 amp breaker in the same circuit as a #12 wire.</font>
In all three of these possible interpretations, the Inspector could not have justified the action on the basis of any NEC requirement.
A
a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: Inspector question
OK what if like I did a few years ago have a home,192 ft from the panel to the closest wall in the master BR.Owner wanted all panels in the garage 600 amp single phase service.I ran 10 home runs in #10 to this area to supply what was there.The inspector looked at it on rough and all he asked was that I tag the #10 leads with a tag that said 20 amp breaker max.As long as you don`t overate the wire what article is he citing??
OK what if like I did a few years ago have a home,192 ft from the panel to the closest wall in the master BR.Owner wanted all panels in the garage 600 amp single phase service.I ran 10 home runs in #10 to this area to supply what was there.The inspector looked at it on rough and all he asked was that I tag the #10 leads with a tag that said 20 amp breaker max.As long as you don`t overate the wire what article is he citing??
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