How to ground a bollard?

[greenspark1]

I have a client who is asking us to ground the metal vehicle bollards we're putting in. OK. I've never seen a listed device to attach to a bollard. Do you use a large pipe clamp, or just tap a bolt in and connect it to the grounding system? I've seen a spec calling for it above grade but this seems like it'll look really poor. Any good ideas on this one?

 

[iwire]

Are these lighted bollards?

If not what is likely to energize them?

And if they do not have circuits likely to energize them how would you determine what size wire to use and where to bond it to?

 

[ActionDave]

Cad weld would work.

 

[greenspark1]

Are these lighted bollards?

If not what is likely to energize them?

And if they do not have circuits likely to energize them how would you determine what size wire to use and where to bond it to?

Nope, just a steel pipe filled with concrete stuck in the ground. They are in a Class 1 Div 2 area so grounding is a sensitive subject. Maybe static could build up enough to cause a spark. The whole site is surrounded by a ground ring with taps for all the concrete pads, metal buildings, etc.

 

[petersonra]

You could probably drill a hole in the metal and bolt some kind of lug to it.

protecting the conductor back to wherever it is going might be more of a problem.

 

[north star]

~ ~ * ~~

Uuuuuuummmm, ...isn't the steel bollard filled with concrete
already grounded by it simply being installed in the ground
[ i.e. - think about a metal flag pole ] ? :blink:

~ ~ * ~ ~

 

[charlie b]

Thanks, North Star. As I was reading this thread, I didn?t want to be the first one to mention that. I will only add a statement that I read once, and wish I had written down. I can?t duplicate the eloquence in which the original was written. But here goes anyway:

There is no greater waste than to try to find a better way to do something that should not be done in the first place.

 

[greenspark1]

Thanks, North Star. As I was reading this thread, I didn?t want to be the first one to mention that. I will only add a statement that I read once, and wish I had written down. I can?t duplicate the eloquence in which the original was written. But here goes anyway:

Good thoughts all around. Yea, I can't say I understand it. But it's what the client says the utility requires it in their neck of the woods (Canada). We all know who will win this battle.

 

[petersonra]

Good thoughts all around. Yea, I can't say I understand it. But it's what the client says the utility requires it in their neck of the woods (Canada). We all know who will win this battle.

years ago I used to design equipment that went into power plants. there was generally a spec from a certain engineering company that required a grounding lug inside every enclosure that would accept a 2/0 ground wire. can't tell you how many small junction boxes had them. control panels fed by a 15A 120V circuit had them as well.

 

[cmaki]

I used to work at a chemical factory. class 1 div 1 or 2 everywhere. Everything had to be grounded. winter the RH would drop to below 10. We would drill and tap a bolt, use a hose clamp, pipe clamp, cad weld, real weld, or just wrap the wire around it a ton. anyway would work. our goal was to get the metal object and building steel within 10ohms.

 

[Jon456]

And if they do not have circuits likely to energize them how would you determine what size wire to use and where to bond it to?

Wouldn't this be an GEC rather than an EGC? I'd say a 4AWG Cu wire to the Ufer, connected to the bollard by exothermic welding.

 

[GoldDigger]

Wouldn't this be an GEC rather than an EGC? I'd say a 4AWG Cu wire to the Ufer, connected to the bollard by exothermic welding.

How about you use a 4AWG wire to connect the bollard to itself , since its mounting serves as a concrete encased electrode, just not one large enough to be used for the sole GE of a building.

 

[petersonra]

Wouldn't this be an GEC rather than an EGC? I'd say a 4AWG Cu wire to the Ufer, connected to the bollard by exothermic welding.

I don't see how it can be a GEC since the bollard is not a legal GE unless it is 8 ft in the ground.

 

[GoldDigger]

I don't see how it can be a GEC since the bollard is not a legal GE unless it is 8 ft in the ground.

I think that his idea is that if he has a separate Ufer or 8' ground rod somewhere, but that ground is not connected to a panel anywhere, then the wires connecting from each bollard to that ground will be each be either a GEC or a bonding jumper, but never an EGC.

 

[Cow]

When we did a medium voltage facility with a ground ring, we used some metal studs from Burndy that were knurled on one end. One end would get welded to whatever you were grounding, the other (knurled) end you would c-tap your ground wire to.

Or you could weld the head of a bolt to the bollard, and then use nuts and a lug on the stud.

 

[petersonra]

I think that his idea is that if he has a separate Ufer or 8' ground rod somewhere, but that ground is not connected to a panel anywhere, then the wires connecting from each bollard to that ground will be each be either a GEC or a bonding jumper, but never an EGC.

Let's look at the definitions of each in the code.

Grounding Conductor, Equipment (EGC). The conductive
path(s) installed to connect normally non?current-carrying
metal parts of equipment together and to the system grounded
conductor or to the grounding electrode conductor, or both.

The metal involved is non-current carrying and the conductor is being used to connect to the GEC, by way of a GE.

Grounding Electrode Conductor. A conductor used to
connect the system grounded conductor or the equipment to
a grounding electrode or to a point on the grounding electrode
system.

Looks like it could be a GEC as well.

 

[charlie b]

But it's what the client says the utility requires it in their neck of the woods (Canada). We all know who will win this battle.

I just noticed this statement. The client says that the utility requires it? Then I would ask to see the utility's requirement in writing. I would be invoking "Charlie's Rule" on this one. I doubt that the utility's requirements really do call for attaching a wire to a metal bollard that has no other wires nearby, and then attaching that wire to something stuck into planet Earth, especially when the metal bollard is itself inserted into planet Earth. This is just plain wrong, and I strongly suspect that the client has misinterpreted the situation.

By chance, is the client an architect, or a member of some other non-electrical industry? I would never put such people down, but you do need to recognize that they are unlikely to understand the intricacies of our profession. They may be telling you what they think is right, and they may simply be mistaken.

 

[kingpb]

Cadweld to post and run a bare #2/0 AWG and connect to the ground ring/ground grid. Are there transmission or distribution lines in the area? That would have an affect. Seen it many times on fences. Most likely they are concerned with touch potential issues. I would think static charge would be eliminated by the burial in the ground.

 

[petersonra]

Cadweld to post and run a bare #2/0 AWG and connect to the ground ring/ground grid. Are there transmission or distribution lines in the area? That would have an affect. Seen it many times on fences. Most likely they are concerned with touch potential issues. I would think static charge would be eliminated by the burial in the ground.

Do they they want and collect the money.

 

[iwire]

Wouldn't this be an GEC rather than an EGC? I'd say a 4AWG Cu wire to the Ufer, connected to the bollard by exothermic welding.

Either way the question remains, the conductor size would be based off of what?