How many rods?

Status
Not open for further replies.
peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Situation: I have a meter pedestal fed from a UG conduit(not the premade kind of pedestal, but 2 4x4s in the ground with deck boards across it) with meter can mounted to it. For the time being, this is serving as the temporary service for a home being built. I drove 2 ground rods at the pedestal, as this is a structure after all.

Question: How many rods do I need at the house? I am thinking I only need one, since I allready have two at the meter base.
 
P

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Re: How many rods?

Originally posted by peter d:
Situation: I have a meter pedestal fed from a UG conduit(not the premade kind of pedestal, but 2 4x4s in the ground with deck boards across it) with meter can mounted to it. For the time being, this is serving as the temporary service for a home being built. I drove 2 ground rods at the pedestal, as this is a structure after all.

Question: How many rods do I need at the house? I am thinking I only need one, since I allready have two at the meter base.
Click to expand...
Maybe you won't need any if you can use the CEE instead.
 
peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Re: How many rods?

The CEE? What's does that letter combination mean?

Maybe I was too vague: Since my meter pedestal is a structure, and the home is a stucture, I need to have ground rods at both. I have allready driven 2 at the meter pedestal, so I have met that code requirement. Now I have to satisfy the requirement to have one at the house. I think I only need one. Does anyone disagree?
 
D

dillon3c

Senior Member
Re: How many rods?

CEE..
concrete encased electrode..

Edited:I had my decoder ring handy..

[ August 12, 2005, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: dillon3c ]
 
J

Jhr

Senior Member
Re: How many rods?

Situation: I have a meter pedestal fed from a UG conduit(not the premade kind of pedestal, but 2 4x4s in the ground with deck boards across it) with meter can mounted to it. For the time being, this is serving as the temporary service for a home being built. I drove 2 ground rods at the pedestal, as this is a structure after all.
Click to expand...
Ok this pedestal with the 2 4x4s will this become the permanant service after the home is built or is this just a temp. power pole, I'm not following, if it remains will there be a main disconnect at the wooden pedestal and a MLO panel at the house, at this pedestal why did you drive 2 ground rods :confused:
 
peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Re: How many rods?

Originally posted by Jhr:
]Ok this pedestal with the 2 4x4s will this become the permanant service after the home is built or is this just a temp. power pole, I'm not following, if it remains will there be a main disconnect at the wooden pedestal and a MLO panel at the house, at this pedestal why did you drive 2 ground rods
Click to expand...
Wow....I guess I'm doing a horrible job explaining this one. :eek: The meter pedestal is going to be permanent. There will be no main disconnect at the meter socket because I don't need one. These are all service conductors located outside and underground. The main will be in the panel in the house.

This setup is very common in this area for those homeowners who don't want to have a meter socket
on the side of their home, and it allows the PoCo to read the meter from very close to the road.

As for the two ground rods, two reasons: As I explained, this meter pedestal is a "structure" and all structures require ground rods [with exceptions of course.] Secondly, the meter pedestal is serving as my temp service. Once the home is built, the temp panel will be removed, and the conduit will be extended from the meter pedestal to main panel.
 
J

Jhr

Senior Member
Re: How many rods?

This setup is very common in this area for those homeowners who don't want to have a meter socket
on the side of their home,
Click to expand...
I have never seen this setup, I apologize.
it allows the PoCo to read the meter from very close to the road.
Click to expand...
Seems somebody is taking it way to easy, around here the meter reader walks, down one ally and back, jumps in his truck and does it all over again at the next ally
Once the home is built, the temp panel will be removed, and the conduit will be extended from the meter pedestal to main panel.
Click to expand...
IMO a ground rod and cold water ground, bonded at the MB panel at the house would do it, around here we don't run the ground wire to the meter base, grounding is at the first point of disconnect,the service conductors from meter to MB panel would be treated as unfused conductors.
 
charlie

charlie

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis
Re: How many rods?

Keep in mind that the meter fitting is not service equipment. Furthermore, if you insist on calling your 4X4s with deck slats a structure, it will require a disconnecting means and overcurrent protection. After that, the home will be fed from a feeder circuit from the service equipment and it will be a second building on the same premises. Yep, ya gotta reestablish grounding and have a disconnecting means at the second building. :D
 
S

suemarkp

Senior Member
Location
Kent, WA
Occupation
Retired Engineer
Re: How many rods?

Around here, we can't ground from a meter base. But if that's allowed in your area, then I'd argue that you only need one ground rod at the house as long as the service neutral to the house is #6 copper or larger. The argument being that this wire is providing the bonding to a second (and third) electrode greated than 6 feet away. The NEC has no maximum distance specified for how far a GEC bonding wire can go before it hits another electrode.

Charlie - is a structure required to have a disconnecting means when conductors only pass through it? I would say you're right if there was a power receptacle at the meter structure, but I wouldn't think a disconnect would be required if its just holding dustribution equipment and not utilization equipment.
 
electricmanscott

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Re: How many rods?

Of all the things to do at work today I was thinking about this topic. I agree with Charlie. I would not call this a structure (ugh) or service equipment. I would establish grounding at the disconnect (or main breaker panel) at the house itself.
 
E

elect36

Member
Re: How many rods?

I'm still trying to figure out why 2 ground rods? We got hit the other day because a 400 amp service at a house only had one ground rod :confused: Inspector made us put another.
 
peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Re: How many rods?

I have 2 ground rods installed at my "struture" because for the time being I have a small panel there serving as temporary site power.

So the question then remains, once the home is built and I install the rest of the service and the main panel, should I disconnect and pull up the 2 rods I installed at the meter pedestal or should I just leave them? I don't see any harm to leaving them.
 
H

hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: How many rods?

By Charlie: if you insist on calling your 4X4s with deck slats a structure, it will require a disconnecting means and overcurrent protection.
Click to expand...
Where would these conductors "enter" this structure?
230.70 General.
Means shall be provided to disconnect all conductors "in" a building or other structure from the service-entrance conductors.
Click to expand...
This is why I say there is no requirment for a disconnect on any pole or other type of "structure" where conductor does not "enter" it!
Now 225.31 does say "supply"
225.31 Disconnecting Means.
Means shall be provided for disconnecting all ungrounded conductors that supply or pass through the building or structure.
Click to expand...
You have always said that the service conductors can run all the way around a bulding but as soon as they enter they need a disconnect and OPCD?
 
G

gudguyham

Member
Re: How many rods?

I see it this way...Right now as a temporary service you need the ground rods you have. When the house is complete, essentially what you will have is a "remote meter location". I would pull the ground rods and have a regular service panel in the house with a main breaker disconnect and the 2 grounding electrodes as usual. If you decide you want a disconnect out at the meter that would be permissible and that would require ground rods I believe according to code, then you would have to run 3 insulated wires (2 hots and a neurtal) and also a 4th grounding conductor. Since it is NOT a second building on the same premises you may not need ground rods at the house itself but you may have to treat it as a sub-panel and keep the bonds and neutrals separated. IMHO I would ditch the disconnect at the meter location and treat it as a remote meter location and do a standard main panel at the house with the ground rods. Sometimes using the KISS method is best.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top