H.264 or H.265

egnlsn

Senior Member
Location
Herriman, UT
Occupation
A/V/Security Technician
I have an 11 camera system that is comprised of 1 AXIS and 10 Hikvision cameras with a NUUO OEM NVR. Eight of the Hikvisions can do either H.264 or 265, while the rest will only do H.264. From all appearances, the NVR will do either H.264 or 265 for those cameras that can do either, but only H.264 for those other 3. My question is, Can I do both codecs on the same NVR?
 

paulengr

Senior Member
Can’t say for sure but isn’t the NVR really just recording data, not transcoding it in any way? It only has to look at meta data not actually decode or transcode so why would the storage format matter? It shouldn’t but I’ve seen similar goofy things. Worst you would need to do is set everything to H.264.
 

mikeames

Senior Member
Location
Germantown MD
Occupation
Teacher - Electrician - 2017 NEC
Of course you can, but it depends on your NVR/VMS. For example blue iris will allow you to use whatever codec you want for each camera. Then you choose where to store the clips/video. So this is specific to your hardware. Look up the manual online. The advantage of IP camera is this flexibility. CCTV is obsolete.
 

egnlsn

Senior Member
Location
Herriman, UT
Occupation
A/V/Security Technician
I thought I'd be able to, but I wanted to make sure. All it says in the manual is "Choose the type of format which this camera supports." So, that's what I'll do. Save myself a bunch of space and improve video quality that way.

What did you mean by "CCTV is obsolete?"
 

mikeames

Senior Member
Location
Germantown MD
Occupation
Teacher - Electrician - 2017 NEC
I thought I'd be able to, but I wanted to make sure. All it says in the manual is "Choose the type of format which this camera supports." So, that's what I'll do. Save myself a bunch of space and improve video quality that way.

What did you mean by "CCTV is obsolete?"
Closed circuit TV was the old topology of exactly that, closed circuit TV. Now not so much. Its IP based and not closed by any means. Accessible from anywhere in the world on any device, and unlimited expand ability. The security is software based instead of hardware based. I am not an expert but do people still install CATV or CCTV with traditional coaxial cables, or BNC? I don't consider IP based surveillance CCTV, no more than I consider Netflix cable TV service.
 

paulengr

Senior Member
Closed circuit TV was the old topology of exactly that, closed circuit TV. Now not so much. Its IP based and not closed by any means. Accessible from anywhere in the world on any device, and unlimited expand ability. The security is software based instead of hardware based. I am not an expert but do people still install CATV or CCTV with traditional coaxial cables, or BNC? I don't consider IP based surveillance CCTV, no more than I consider Netflix cable TV service.
Yes they do.

There are numerous advantages to the IP system to be sure. But the fact is that IP video cameras cost way more than $100 a piece. And the DVRs are inexpensive and so are monitors. And you cannot ignore the cost of the PoE switches either as part of the total cost. The biggest advantages of IPTV is the video formats are much better and the distribution network is simplified if you are sending everythjng to centralized storage. Outside of that, there’s realistically not a lot of difference.

And you are ignoring the fact that many times these go on the IT network managed by IT people. The same people that believe troubleshooting means just reboot 3 times to make sure that any possible troubleshooting information is completely erased then reinstall Windows 6 times because that software is so unstable and unreliable, then blame the user. They use switches with the crappiest software that takes a half hour to restart itself and reboot them all the time, constantly taking the security system down for no reason. They have no respect for proper security and maintenance procedures. They believe security means making users change passwords to things that can’t be memorized every week and imposing as many limitations and inconveniences on using the system as possible. They believe security means you will do anything to avoid dealing with them and their system. They are usually supervised by accounting. They don’t care as long as payroll works once a week and they can do end of the month accounting and download giant spreadsheets constantly during business hours. So there is no cost savings with IPTV. The IP system ends up the same cost or more because it has to be separate and isolated to protect it from the IT department.

And cloud based is even worse. Right now EFF is going after Amazon because Ring is basically insecure and there have been numerous incidents, and Amazon promotes its wide open basically insecure platform to police departments. I’m not anti-police in any way but we have bad actors in EVERY group of people no matter who they are. The last thing you need in a security system is to let the whole world in, especially with a group of people that work closely with criminals where there is such a huge incentive for criminals to try to infiltrate police departments. It takes just one dirty cop to totally turn every Ring camera in the world against you. Those movies showing hackers breaking into your security are fiction when you can just pay a dirty cop to give you wide open access to a cloud system. Don’t think it isn’t happening.

But here’s the thing...what are you using the camera system for? It’s application specific. If you are building a security system with a lot of cameras and recording everything to network storage with multiple stations and so forth, iP based systems make sense. But in any given site, that is ONE system. That’s it. It makes security and alarm system companies happy because that is their market. But it’s a very tiny piece of the camera market. I would say that I’ve installed 10 times that many systems on the manufacturing production floor in EVERY plant. Operators use them to watch their equipment everywhere. It makes it possible to watch parts of the machine you can’t otherwise see or watch multiple areas continuously instead of say doing rounds every 30 minutes. It makes no sense to put in 1-4 IP cameras, an NVR, storage, a PoE Ethernet switch, and a computer when you can do the same thing with 4 CCTV cameras, a video multiplexer or a cheap DVR, and a monitor.

The thing is alarm companies sell “security”. I mean both definitions. There is an emotional element (fear) driving the security business. If you go in selling these plant production systems at alarm company pricing you never, ever make a sale. Most of the time these staff as a cheap system to serve a real and immediate need. They buy the $300 Walmart special. It fails. They buy another. Eventually they buy an industrial quality CCTV system for $1000. Then another, then another. Pretty soon there are hundreds of cameras and tens of thousands of dollars if not more wrapped up in what amounts to the plant production and control systems. Meanwhile the alarm contractor came in at the beginning with their IPTV system with a camera alone that costs more than the entire first system.

And with the DVR you can still connect it to the IT network and get 99% of the features of the NVR. But that’s not necessarily a good thing. Here is the thing. Security systems let’s face it are there to watch what people are doing. Not only for security but they are also frequently used to spy on people while they are working. That’s a huge morale killer because it shows management is so incompetent they put no trust in their people. It destroys trust. And we get tremendous push back putting in plant floor systems when they are abused this way. If you don’t do this, largely nobody cares and they actually encourage more cameras, not less, and help keep the system maintained. It’s easier to sell CCTV for that reason, despite low quality video, non centralized storage, etc.

Eventually they want to upgrade beyond CCTV and will go to IPTV strategically in production systems. Most of the IPTV cameras in use are way more than that...they are Cognex and similar full blown vision systems used to automate watching the production line. So it becomes a hybrid system with CCTV everywhere and IPTV strategically where needed.

Also if you hate doing BNCs that much you can just use baluns instead but electricians have more trouble successfully terminating with an RJ45 than they do with a crimped on BNC.

So just saying if you’re nothing but an alarm contractor all you see is alarm systems. If you’re an electrical/controls/maintenance contractor you see a much bigger picture with a much larger market and more business potential. Except for very simple control systems, few if any more sophisticated PLC control systems these days don’t involve one or more cameras. It reached a point 15 years ago when we were in planning stages for control system installations that cameras and vision systems got added automatically as an agenda item. People go crazy with this stuff when they think of it as a tool instead of security,
 
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